Why not feed under 1's during the night?

[mears]

This is a thread for my interest really.

There are lots of threads about trying to get babies to sleep through without feeds during the night. I think mums are ending up with even less sleep that if they just fed their baby, be it breast or bottle. Is it the fear that if it is not cracked by 6 months they will never sleep through?

My sister has 4 girls who didn't sleep though till at least a year and her philosophy was to do whatever would get herself back into bed and sleep the quickest. She realised with her second baby that she spent too much time being annoyed about being up which was making her even more tired. She remembered the hassle with the first so she decided just to feed at night and sort out the sleeping when they were older. When they were over a year she sorted it out with controlled crying (didn't take long)

I took that attitude myself. When babies woke I took them into bed and fed them. That meant I could sleep at the same time. They were all breastfed. First 2 babies slept through the night by 4 months. Number 3 did not sleep through till 8 months and he was the fattest baby out the lot. With 2 other toddlers to look after there was no way I was going to lose out on sleep at night by avoiding just feeding. Number 4 was B/F exclusively till 6 months and she had periods of being up during the night then sleeping through again about the 6-7 month mark.

I had 15 months between babies number 2 and 3 and was also working 2 night a week. DH got up and gave EBM when I wasn't at home, so I wanted to make sure I got as much sleep as possible.

The point I am trying to get across is that perhaps mums are getting themselves stressed out where they could just feed and get back to sleep.

Once baby is a year old it is possibly easier to stop night feeds with controlled crying like my sister did. I found that I didn't need to do that because the latest mine slept through was 8 months. I have never had a problem with children sleeping in my bed. Once they started to sleep through that was it.

Any thought?

[mears]

jinglespots - teeth will be fine. Breastmilk does not cause tooth decay. My oldest 3 have no fillings at all. I am ashamed to say my youngest DD who is 11 years has had a couple of fillings because she eats too many sweets!

[jinglespots]

good oh. we won't stop feeding on that score then!

[lucysmum]

I agree with mears. My husband says I am soft because I still give my 20m old DD a bottle with about 2oz of milk when she wakes, which is once a night most nights. However, I work 4 days a week, have an older DD and this method gets me back to bed in about 2 minutes (she holds the bottle herself). She happily goes back to sleep, no crying, when she has finished the milk. But I do understand that if this doesn;t work for other people ie baby does not go back to sleep easily you need to do CC or something similar.

[nailpolish]

mears - thats dedication for you!

[Piffleoffagus]

I always fed, why would you not feed a baby esp if you're b/f as it is more than just food
I'd rather give my dd 2 a boob than calpol for her teething but she outgrew the boob 6 mths ago.
I try not to worry about dd waking in the night now, she rarely sleeps through but needs only a cuddle to settle again, I expect by the time she's 4 or 5 she'll sleep through
She smells gorgeous in the night all warm and all mine!

[aloha]

Oh but Piffle, imagine if she DIDN'T go back to sleep, but stayed wide awake for hours and hours and hours? And cried if you weren't cuddling and feeding her? It's really not quite so lovely then, I promise.
As for feeding lying down, well, ds would just NOT latch on - I was desperate to do it, not so much so I could sleep but more because I was SO bone tired that I cried at the thought of sitting upright... I'd find ds just crying and milk everywhere!
And as feeding didn't make him go to sleep, feeding lying down wasn't really the answer anyway. And it wasn't just feeding, it was changing too...poo everywhere with every bloody feed. Oh no...it's all flooding back. Actually, I'm joking but in reality I feel quite tearful even writing all this down. It's hard to explain just how dreadful it was, tbh.

[geekgrrl]

aahh piffle know how you feel - ds (13 months) still wakes up for a night feed occasionally - doesn't bother me greatly and I love the peacefulness and intimacy of nightfeeds (within reason! - every other night is enough for me). He's the youngest of three and our last baby, I don't seem to get much time to enjoy him on his own, so whilst I do like my sleep night feeds are special, too.

[merrykittymas]

I honestly cannot imagine being sleep deprived as some of you are describing. DD has slept in our bed 11-6am since 4 weeks old. At 6am she moans and wriggles a bit Mummy lifts her top she has a good feed and we both go off to sleep more often than not I wake an hour later she's latched off and sound asleep and I haven't even noticed.

I'll cross the bridge of getting her in her own bed/room when I come to it, I've got to much else to worry about right now. I think you've got to do whatever gets you the most sleep. I also think theres a competition thing that mothers boast about their babies going through the night (little X slept from 7-7 from the day we brought him home from the hospital) and if your baby doesn't do this you feel inadequate.

[Schmauskin]

Dear Aloha, I am DESPERATE too. I am crying as I write becuase I am so completely exhausted. My daughter is 6 months next week and I haven't had a decent night's sleep since she was born Every morning when I get up my body hurts all over - I have mouth ulcers, my bones ache and I am begining to wonder why I had a child. I cannot function properly during the day and often just sit and weep with tiredness. My daughter is now waking at 4.00-4.30am every morning - she will go back to sleep after some boob or water, but I am such a light sleeper it takes me ages to get my head down and then she's up again at 6.45am...and now BLOODY Xmas to deal with.

[TracyK]

schmauskin - go to bed at 9pm. 9 -4.30 is still a good length of sleep. are you b/f? I'm sure I felt crap because I'm b/f and all the goodness from your body goes into the milk. take some vitamin pills - the pregnacare ones cos they're for bf as well.

[bakedpotatohoho]

Schmauskin oh honey, i feel for you big time. i also fell apart physically with the interrupted nights (ulcers, aches, tears: i can tick all those boxes, and i only had 12 wks of hell). not sure if aloha is around but looking back over the thread, she did try cc didn't work for her at 6mths, though it does for others (we did gina ford from pretty early on and had a baby who needed stacks of sleep, so it didn't really come into play. however i would have gone for it in a flash if it had been required).
have you looked at dr richard ferber's book. Solve Your Child's Sleep Problems? v gentle, interesting, informed, reassuring, could give you some ideas and a sense that you can get some control back, if you want it.

[lailag]

For what it's worth this is my story. Have both ds and dd still sleeping with me at night. Stopped bf them at night when they were about 20 months old. Just told them "no", you can have "water". They both started sleeping through after a few nights. DH tells me I am too soft as I would never be able to go through with cc. Did have dd sleeping in my arms on occasions as that would be the only way I and dd could get some sleep. As Mears and Nailpolish I have also gotten used to nightshifts and sleeping whenever I can. I would at times go to bed really really early, 8, 9 pm.
Anyway, now thinking about a way to get them to sleep in their own bed...

[SantasLittleEgypt]

oooo a subject very close to my own heart at the mo, mears!

when dd was 5.5 months we were at the stage of hourly wakings and only way to get her back to sleep was to bf. i didnt mind, but it was so frequent i became concerned that she was waking and feeding through habit/associating bf with getting to sleep etc. my hv confirmed this. she told me to try cc. i did. the first night i offered water at midnight when she woke then bf at 4. the second she slept through 7-7!! amazed. but...then she got a cold and i just couldnt do cc. (we'd gone to my mums for a week too, so she was out of sorts anyway). since then i've really not done it properly. some nights i have offered a bottle - water or milk. sometimes it send her back to sleep sometimes not and i end up bf. this week i have just gone back to bf. what i am concerned about though is that she's going to become dependent on it again and it'll get to the very frequent stage. at the moment she feeds 2-3 times a night. only once in the small hours. i know she doesnt necessarily need it as she's proven that. but maybe she does?! what do u think?

[SantasLittleEgypt]

she's just 7 months btw

[dinny]

Mears, I totally agree with what you say. I put ds (3.5 months) to bed in his cot t abotu 7pm then when he wakes between 10-11.30ish for a feed I go to bed and bring him in with me fr the night. He then feeds whenever he wants - if I am awake enough I roll us over to the other side if needed but don't worry too much about swapping sids. He definitely just has small frequent snacks during the night - not sure how many as am lucky that I go back to sleep straight away. I LOVE having him with me - I drift off with his little tummy pressed against mine, feeling every breath....it's bliss. DD (to my eternal sadness) was bottlefed and although she co-slept with us it was obviously a different experience. So I am enjoying this so much and will probably be desolate when he decides to sleep through (not to mention my boobs - they'll probably explode the night he sleeps through!)

[egypt]

me again...she is waking lots now. 1.5-2 hours. its a nightmare. i am bf when she does and she goes straight back, but i cant keep this up. have taken into bed too, but i seriously find it difficult to sleep with her tbh. any ideas mears? do u think that cc is the way now.....for my sanity ? or is 7 months too early?

[Allyco]

I've had four dds now and they have all come into the bed with us.The eldest (now 18!) I tried leaving to cry, ignoring, settling repeatedly and so on for literally months and eventually out of sheer desperation she ended up in our bed and slept. The second and third were much the same although by then I was of the opinion that whatever it took to get them to sleep, I would do. Now that the fourth is here she has been in our bed since she came home from hospital and I haven't even thought about trying to get her into the cot yet. It is very easy to suggest cc or other methods especially if you're a psychologist or something and you haven't actually been there. I agree with you Mears - you have to do whatever works. There is no point stressing about stuff, just do what you can. Incidentallly when I had my first three the health professionals were much less sympathetic to me having them in my bed but this time round the health visitor hasn't said much against it (unless she is too scared to because I am defensive!). For anyone who is suffering I understand totally because I've done it too and if anyone wants someone to whinge at I'm your woman lol

[scampadoodle]

Reading Aloha's posts makes me realise i haven't got much of a problem (if it's any comfort, Aloha, my 7m DS2 is so different in personality to DS1, & his babyhood is a completely different experience, so you never know).

Anyway, DS2 (almost 7m) wakes 1-3 times a night to be fed, plus other times when I can just stave him off with a dummy. After feeding, he generally goes back to sleep at once, as do i, but even so nearly 7 months of 3 hrs sleep a night are giving me viruses, mouth ulcers & just sheer exhaustion! He is bottle-fed & sleeps (happily) in his own cot. I know what you all mean about the path of least resistance ie feed 'em & get back to bed, but of late he's shown no interest in his daytime milk & we really have to force 4-5oz down at bedtime. During the night, however, he just wolfs it down. Frustrating, no? He's been on solids for nearly 3 months & loves them - has 3 good meals a day. We tried half-heartedly to sleep-train him last week but well, the little bugger was hungry so I fed him in the end... I'm wondering whether to grit my teeth & not feed him for a couple of nights so that he's hungry for milk during the day again. What do you all think?

[egypt]

might me a good idea scamp, i am wondering the same myself. she wouldnt take a bottle at all this eve and last feed was 230pm. she will guzzle as usualy tonight. we can;t literally starve them though so maybe worth a try if you can bear it. might only take 1 night...she says

[TracyK]

I would feed them when they want - maybe water down the milk a little?? Just think in 10 years time - you'll look back on all this stress and laugh.
Babies are so resilient that it doesn't matter a hoot (in the long term) how often they eat/don't eat, sleep/don't sleep etc. It's taken me 8 months of stressing myslef out to come to this conclusion. I'm sure stressing myself out just added to my feeling of tiredness - once I accepted it as part of bringing up a little one - I felt much better.
I saw a boy today - maybe 8 or 9 yo - still having to be hand fed with a bib on - I'm not sure what was wrong with him - but it sure opened my eyes to my 'problems' not really being a big deal.

[scampadoodle]

TBH, for all my strong resolution now, come 3am when i'm desperate to get back to bed I know i'll cave in & feed him...

[egypt]

yes you're right tracy but its all relative. having not had a good nights sleep in 7 months i feel the need though.

me too scamps, always caving in. praps thats the problem. but tonight i thought, 'i may as well do cc as when i feed her she's waking every hour anyway. either way i get little sleep and at least cc might be closer to the light at the end of the tunnel...'

we'll see though!

sorry mears, we are kind of hijacking your thread. are you around?

[OLittleYurtofBethlehem]

Hi Mears - Im one of the inspirations for this htread arent I?

things is now dd has formula at bedtime and before lunchtime sleep - she is a much happier baby - with a much happier mummy

She wakes at 10pm ish when we transfer her from cot into lounge - loooooooong story - It means we can sleep and talk etc in our bedroom! She sleeps so much better now

I feed her at breakfast and at 10ish which is fine but not ideal - I certainly didnt find feeding her at 3am an easier option than not feeding her.

HTH

[moongirl]

i think this is a really important thread. Some babes don't sleep whatever you do--but i agree that you get SO much pressure as a new mum not to be feeding at night by a certain time. With DS1 i remember letting him cry and cry at 9 weeks old trying to push his night feed forward 1 or 2 hours because i was convinced by all the literature and mummies groups that he shouldn't be feeding 4 times a night. I was obviously thoroughly awake by then, he was (in retrospect) v hungry and miserable and i got more and more depressed. I tried to "make" him do all sorts of things he was "supposed" to be doing. You are so vunerable as a new mum, you don't believe in yourself or your instinct, you believe all the experts instead. DD2 has been a joy. I am lucky in that she is an easy baby and has never woken 5 times a night for a feed like her brother, but still i started off "trying" to get her into a pattern and one night while trying to get her to suck a dummy rather than feed it all became clearer: i fed her. she slept. i slept. i threw out all the books and began to trust myself ( a little anyway)

[aloha]

Schmauskin, only just seen your post. Deep, deep sympathy. It's so awful, isn't it? My absolute salvation was that my dh suffered along with me (we are both psychologically scarred!) and we slept in shifts until we could bear it no more. Also, we took turns with the early morning waking so we knew that if we got up at 4am, the next day we could sleep until 6am. Also if we were up at 4am until 6am, we could then go back and sleep until 7.30am. I don't think I could have survived unless we'd done this. CC didn't work at 6months, ds just became absolutely inconsolable and it was awful, but we did work on eliminating night feeds by stretching them out slowly so went from 12 -4am without a feed, then 11 - 4am then 11 to 5am etc (very rough timings as have forgotten gory details) and then, when I was pretty sure he wasn't hungry until morning, we did cc at 8months, when it was really incredibly easy and he just whinged for about 20mins at most, and it turned around very quickly and he is now a wonderful sleeper, and the happiest boy in the world (three years and four months and never a tantrum at all - touch wood). So I got my payback in the end. Though I am hoping for a different experience with new baby born in Feb, and yes, I love hearing about second children who SLEEP!! And you see, it took us 2 1/2 years to face the thought of another baby, but we did it!