Sleep consultants - should I bother

[Haypanky]

So my nearly 9 month old is typically awake 12-2 and again from 5. He is very hard to resettle and when he does I think it's more that time has passed rather than anything I've done.

He settles himself for naps and bedtime lovely.

When he wakes in the night I have tried milk (often refuses, it doesn't settle him), soothing pats and rubs in the cot, picking him up (he arches away), ignoring the arching away and keeping him on me (he cries on me and difficult to get him back in cot if it does work), disappearing chair (he isn't calmed by me being there, his room is too small to go far), controlled crying and proper cio (he cried for +2hrs and i didn't try it again).

I have tried things for a few days at a go each so try to give it a chance.

I took him to a cranial osteopath yesterday for treatment for a stiff neck and he didn't sleep any better following that either!

I'm reluctant to pay for a sleep consultant as I am not sure what they could do that I can't do myself. But am not sure what else to do. Does anyone have any experience with consultants?

Cosleeping is not an option logistically, and I'm any case I feel its unlikely to work or address the route cause.

[sleepycat13]

how very interesting! Im normally quite dubious about these things but shall have Google and see if there is anything near me. anything is worth a try if I can get him to sleep more

[Haypanky]

It's a dark art, it didn't look like they were doing anything much! I found a local one who specialised in babies. She asked questions about birth etc. She sat my bab on her treatment table and put her fingers on the back of his neck and applied gentle pressure. I couldn't really see her doing anything! But my baby seemed to enjoy it, he really never lies on his back but gradually relaxed against her and ended up on his back really relaxed with his head hanging off the table into her hands so that she could carry on the treatment! After the first session, the following morning I noticed his mobility and flexibility had improved. I went back a week later and was totally gobsmacked that he slept through that night! He's gone from waking up 3 times a night and crying for 1-2hrs to sleeping until the early hours consistently. I've also seen improvements in his mobility and am taking him back for one final session as I've noticed he's not using his arms evenly. I believe in many countries it's a fairly standard thing to take babies to a cranial osteo soon after birth! I wish I'd tried it sooner, he had a stiff neck and I was given physio exercises but they obviously didn't cut it.

[sleepycat13]

do you mind me asking what the cranial osteopath involved? I must admit i don't really know much about it but sounds like we had a very similar birth experience to you (twisted, stuck then forceps) and if it has worked for you it might be worth exploring. glad to hear things are going well though.

[Haypanky]

@sleepycat13, no we didn't try a consultant, a few sessions with a cranial osteopath and he's sleeping much much better. Turns out he was actually quite uncomfortable from getting twisted and stuck in labour. He doesn't sleep through but usually gets to 4:30 then necks some milk and goes back to sleep.

Your plan sounds like a good one, your chap is still very small. Fingers crossed his sleep patterns mature. In the meantime, keep the caffeine flowing and never turn down cake!

[sleepycat13]

Hi @Haypanky
thanks for checking in
we have had one or two better nights (which proves he can sleep longer) but also much of the same. I have read a couple of sleep programmes and trying to incorporate bits when it suits but without following anything too strictly or doing anything too drastic just yet as I don't quite feel up to it yet. I still feed him to sleep and mostly don't feel able to stop this yet. I'm just trying to ride it out for now and decided I would reassess things once he gets to about 6 or 7 months.
how have you been getting on? did you try a consultant?

[Haypanky]

@sleepycat13 just wondered how you're getting on?

[CPtart]

I introduced a nap/sleep time comforter around this time. A blanket or soft toy, worked like a dream for years.
Never offered milk in the night at this age, that seemed like a backward step, but always gave a stodgy supper of porridge or Weetabix.
Hope your good luck continues.

[Haypanky]

Well then, the boy has now had 2 cranial osteopathy sessions, and he's just slept through. It's like a miracle! I'm totally gobsmacked. So anyone in a similar boat, I would recommend giving it a try!

[Haypanky]

I know!!! If this works I could love you forever dubious... Even one better night is a definite win at this stage!

[InDubiousBattle]

Nobody move..or speak...or do anything!!!

[Haypanky]

Well I don't want to jinx it, but... Could be on to something?!!!! 😬

[Haypanky]

I've tried experiments with temperature and he does prefer being warmer so we've upgraded his sleeping bag. He has a comforter which smells of me (lived down my top for a week!) he loves it at bedtime but doesn't 'use' it the critical time of night!

His room isn't that dark I can see fine in there at night, he has a gro egg light which I can position more prominently.

He has gentle white noise that plays all night.

When he wakes at 5 I often turn a star projector on just to occupy him in his cot until a more reasonable time. Sometimes he'll drift back off, as a special treat!!!

[Haypanky]

Thanks dubious for replying again! No idea how to tag you ;)

My gut feeling is that he really wants to go back to sleep but on some level can't. I used to feed him at this time, and I think a nice full tummy would have helped to settle him, even though I'm confident it's not a sleek association as such. Now he doesn't want milk at night, we've lost that assistance.

Funnily enough my 3yo has been waking from nightmares and difficult to calm. Last night I told her a little story and effectively put her back to bed. It made me wonder about trying it with the boyo. Worth a shot at this point!

I might try putting him to bed early tonight as he's running up a deficit now, and when he wakes I might do a pit stop - nappy, offer milk just in case, story, with the night light nothing brighter. It might wake him up more but maybe he needs that to get back off. Like starting afresh.

Defo worth a try at this point!

[InDubiousBattle]

There are some real positives there op, the self settling and napping looks great. The 12-2 waking really does sound like a baby desperate to be asleep. Have you checked all environmental factors? Temperature? Boiler switching on? Neighbours weird shifts? Does he have a comforter/special blanket/dummy? Is his room pitch black? My nephew became afraid of the dark at not much older than this and needed a nightlight and a thing that projects stars in the room.

Have you tried basically doing the bedtime routine (only a shortened version! )again? So back downstairs, dim lighting, milk in a sippy cup, night night, back up to bed? Just an idea given that he settles well to bed at 7, with a view to shortening it further over time?

[greendale17]

It worked miracles or 2 of my friends

[Haypanky]

He's not in childcare at the mo, I'm still on matty leave until March. He's generally happy and easy in the day.

[Haypanky]

I don't really want to debate the ins and outs of cry it out. All I'll say is he cries for over an hour irrespective of whether I'm with him trying to sooth him, controlled crying check ins were not helping, so I tried it.

His routine is quite varied at the mo because he's in a nap transition from 3 to 2. And some days I have my 3yo at home to work around. I know this doesn't help matters and do my best to keep things consistent.

On a good day he is up at 6:30, milk, breakfast at 7:30, nap at 9 as long as he likes, 1-1.5hrs would be typical, lunch at 12. From here it's a bit variable just because of his age and habits. If he is well rested and lasts past 2 then has a decent length nap say 1.5hrs again then that will be it for naps. If his second nap is shorter or he needs it earlier in the day then I either force another nap later (5pm cut off) or if can't then have to put him to bed early. If it goes well then milk is at 3 or when he wakes, dinner at 5:30 and in bed asleep by 7.

On a bad day he's up early, tired, goes back to bed at 7:30 and we fudge it from there. If he's been up +3hrs then I put him to bed.

He usually has in total 2-3hrs daytime sleep, which would be appropriate for his age if he slept enough at night. I struggle to get him to catch up in the day because we are busy with the social life of a 3yo and tbh he's not a big napper, I rarely wake him, when he wakes he won't go back off for love nor money, and he tends to wake happy from naps. He's just done, you know!

I don't think this is a scheduling issue but am open to suggestions. Thanks!

[InDubiousBattle]

I wouldn't do cio ever (and I did cc with my ds).

Can you describe an average day op? Naps, food, milk and sleep times. Does he go to nursery/cm?

[Haypanky]

Thanks for the advice on consultants! Forgiveness

[Haypanky]

Hi Sleepycat, don't take this the wrong way but your lo sounds totally normal to me so you might just need to wait for babs to get a bit older and naturally improve. You need to try the whole drowsy but awake thing, which you can read up on, which means no feeding to sleep. I hope this helps!

[Haypanky]

Dubious, thanks for your reply. He is not getting enough sleep now, and I know that will make things worse. I am getting him to bed as early as I can and for naps in his cot when I am home. I am not sure what else to do about that other than help him learn to sleep better!

Yes I have changed tactics quite a few times in desperation but 4 things in 5 months isn't that crazy I hope.

I know I haven't been consistent with controlled crying / cry it out as I haven't tried for more than a few days on the trot. But over those days he has not once settled himself from a cio situation. At 2hrs I give up as I think that's enough screaming and feel very harsh. He does not seem to be winding down at this point.

The health visitor I spoke to put me off pursuing this tactic further and suggested the whole disappearing chair thing instead.

Pu/pd was when he was younger.

So really I've tried cuddling him (he doesn't want cuddles, he wants to sleep!), soothing him in his cot, sitting with him and leaving him to it, over the last few months. And calpol. Lots of calpol.

[sleepycat13]

@Haypanky I think I share those thoughts on waiting until out of regression territory. so thank you. the 5 hours has happened once or twice. a typical night is a 3-4 hour stretch followed by hourly wakes after that. on a good night the wakes will be half hour and he resettles after that but quite frequently the wakes can go on for well over an hour or two so in total over the night we are lucky if we clock up 7 hours. daytime naps are hard work too.
I think part of the problem is I tend to feed to sleep as have no idea how to encourage him to self settle. how do you manage this, when your little one sleeps that is?

[ForgivenessIsDivine]

The second one I saw wouldn't start working with babies who were less than 9 months old. I was at the limits of my sanity by that stage with DS2. The two that I saw came to my house to meet my partner and I and I think might have met the children.. but not sure. The first time I did it, DS1 was almost 2 and by the time we had finished and she had given me some tips for coping with the imminent arrival of DD. DD was a dream, followed all the cues, minor interventions worked really well for her. I honestly thought that I was a sleep expert.... then DS2 arrived!!

I think you could get the same help from someone at a distance who could do it by Skype or Facetime which should be cheaper. Ideally, you need an initial consultation, a plan to follow and at least two follow up calls / emails.

[Haypanky]

Thanks for responses already! Any tips on how to find a sleep consultant would be useful too.

To the person with the 4 month old, I would personally think that 5hrs sleep for a 4 month old is not too bad! If it's regular that is. I think that from that age on they should be having a bedtime routine, learning to settle themselves and win be naturally starting to consolidate sleep, so if that were me I'd work on the above and give it a month to get out of regression territory. Just my view! Not like mine is sleeping though!!!

[InDubiousBattle]

How much actual sleep is he getting? When does he nap and how long for? Tbh I'd be tempted to try the gp, are you sure he isn't in any pain? If not then he sounds chronically over tired. If he is 9 months now it sounds like you have tried lots of different things in a short 3 months which may have confused him a bit.