Should I give up on breastfeeding for a better routine? feeling like everyone is doing things right apart from me :(

[MYA2016]

So my baby boy is 8 weeks old. We have a huge issue with him sleeping alone. We have a snuzpod which he's slept in twice in total and the moses basket has never been slept in. He sleeps on me every night and during the day too if I can get him to actually sleep in the day.
We've tried and tried to get him down on his own but nothing works. I've beat myself up over it and heard the 'rod for your own back' shit more times than I care to remember.
I never intended to bed share but it's all that works and we get 8 hrs sleep a night (he only wakes up once for a feed)
however on meeting the other 8 ladies from antenatal classes, I've realised I'm the only one still breastfeeding. They are now all formula or combination feeding and seem to be getting on fine! Their babies sleep alone happily. They're telling me that breast milk is watery and probably not filling him up which is why he doesn't settle on his own for long as he's not really filling up or getting tired. Does this sound correct? He doesn't really sleep in the day unless he's In the car.
I feel like I'm doing everything wrong as their babies go to bed at 8pm and sleep well on their own. Mine comes to bed with us at 10.30 and sleeps with us.
I know you shouldn't compare but would formula feeding make him less clingy? I don't usually feel down about this but it's really got to me this weekend

[MYA2016]

And thanks everyone else too, sorry your msgs only showed up after. Really appreciate it :-)

[FellOutOfBedTwice]

Well your friends are right- breast milk is watery compared to formula and formula will probably be making them sleep better because it's got a fat to water ratio something like four times higher than breast milk. However breast milk is what your baby should be having, not porridge in a bottle. You're doing the right thing, ignore all the chit chat. His sleeping with change loads in the next months anyway. Keep doing what you're doing.

[SweetAdeline]

It's a marathon not a sprint. I expect the 4 month sleep regression will bring you some sleep-deprived friends, then at least one of them will decide to start the day at five for a year or so, teething then later on nightmares can fuck sleep too.
There is so much more to sleep than feeding routines when you look long term.

[GothicRainbow]

There's a lot more to sleep than just what they are fed. My bf journey with my DS (now almost 3) ended prematurely due to reflux which he still has we moved to bottle feeding when he was 6 weeks old. He didn't sleep anywhere other than on me until he was nearly 6 months old. We then thought we had cracked the night sleeping and the 9 month sleep regression hit.

It took us until he was 18 months for him to be able to sleep independently at night and in the day. He was 16 months when he stopped needing to be rocked to sleep. He still needs us in his room with him whilst he's falling asleep now but we have followed his cues and never rushed him into anything before he is ready and he's now a great little sleeper bar the odd nightmare or illness.

DS2 is due at the end of the month and I'm fully prepared to follow his lead again, hopefully with a more successful start to bf!

[GirlSailor]

My breastfed 14 week old is sleeping peacefully in her sleepyhead/snuzpod combination. The first time she did this she was 11 weeks. All her antenatal class friends are exclusively breast fed and she is the only one who needed to be held to sleep.

I had tried her unsuccessfully in the snuzpod every possible way - muslin that smelt of me, warming it etc with no joy. Then when she was about 10 weeks she seemed to be trying to stretch out more in my lap (she had shifted her preference from chest a bit earlier) so I tried her next to me. I wasn't keen on this as I was super tired from 10 weeks of less than 4 hours a night, so felt I might sleep too deeply to be safe, and she was sleeping on my arm and it would go dead and I struggled moving her to feed her. At that point we bought the sleepyhead and she took to it straight away. Who knows if it would have made a difference earlier or not.

As far as feeding goes, I'm no expert but it probably doesn't make a difference to sleep. Now she's sleeping next to me I wake up, feed her and she goes back down next to me in half an hour usually and there's no way I'd swap that for making up a bottle in the middle of the night. But plenty of people would much rather be able to have their partner take a shift even if it's longer and faffier because you could have much longer without being interrupted. It all depends on what's right for you.

It feels like so long ago that we were holding her in shifts overnight, but it was just a couple of weeks ago. After trying a bunch of stuff with no success, one day she was just ready and slept not on one of us with no fuss. I hope that happens soon for you, and you get some rest.

[ThirtyNineWeeks]

OP, I could've written your post (except my son is 7 wks-old and last night fed 6 times from 9-7). He has reflux, which means I have had to completely abandon my trusted Gina Ford routine which worked a bloody treat 2 years ago with DD. I have also had to resort to a wrap sling, a Sleepyhead, a swing chair and co-sleeping - all the 'rods-for-backs' sleep aide that made me shudder two years ago when I considered such tactics to be for weak mothers. We do what we have to do when given a baby with extra 'needs' and I've found that surrendering to the fact has actually brought with it a certain freedom (routines are fiercely difficult to impose on some babies).

I agree lots of women lie about sleep/feeding. You are very, very lucky to be getting all that quality sleep; you're doing brilliantly (you utter cow )

P.s....I mix feed and I can tell you that formula does not make baby more putdownable or willing to sleep for longer periods.

[ThirtyNineWeeks]

...and I told my crotchety HV all of the above and just dared her to oppose me. She didn't bat an eyelid.

[nicg85]

Changing to formula will not solve the issues. Just try to feed him more through the day to calorie load and then he may not need as much through night.
At 8 weeks my dd was going to bed about 10pm and I worried it was too late but don't worry it's pretty normal.
She's now 20 weeks and had only just started going to bed about 7.30/8 in the last month.
How do you try put him in Moses basket? Do you wait til he's in a deep sleep before transferring? That worked for me. Also swaddling helped too and warming basket with a hot water bottle before hand.
Maybe put one of your worn tops in his basket too so he can smell you.

[nicg85]

Oh and sorry if I've repeated anything - I've not read previous posts!!

[olympicsrock]

My ds now 7 months was just like that. By 11 weeks I was exhausted and had a bad back from sleeping propped up. He screamed every time I put him down in the crib so it was just easier to get some rest with a happily sleeping baby. Mine had reflux too. A fab lady came to advise. The solution was to swaddle ds give him a dummy and cuddle in quiet darkened room til sleepy then put gently in moses and leave my hand firmly on his cheSt for 30 seconds until he stopped stirring. Then cover basket with a darkened muslin. This worked first time. The idea was to have consistent sleep cues. He has now been in his own bed since this point apart from the odd night when he is unwell .I still let him nap on me for snuggly cuddles during the afternoon . I would not have believed that this would work as I was just too tired to risk trying something new.

[ThirtyNineWeeks]

Olympics, ooooo! I'll try the hand on chest; what's all that about?

[Gillian1980]

I'm sure you're doing a great job, we all feel like we're doing it wrong at times.

Changing from bf to ff made absolutely no difference whatsoever to DDs sleep, so I really wouldn't pin too many hopes on that. It was one of the factors in my decision to change and when it had no impact I felt disappointed and guilty as hell for changing.

[olympicsrock]

Thirty nine weeks. If it makes you feel any better this was dc 2 as well. A clingy baby with reflux is a totally different kettle of fish from a normal baby. The hand on chest trick just helps the transition from being held to being alone.

[olympicsrock]

Definitely don't give up breastfeeding if you enjoy it and it is going ok. It is such a relief to be able to do something to comfort them when they are ill or teething such a special bond .

[AppleYumYum]

Chin up, you really are doing a great job, definitely ignore them - they're just first time mothers as well, what do they know! Once you get the hang of breastfeeding, boiling water and sterilising bottles is a pain versus lifting your top up whilst warm in your bed. Babies are individuals and they all have different personalities from the start. I wish mine had only woken once in the night for a feed, lucky you! Plus I didn't move mine into their own room until they were 1 year old on the dot!

Your first baby is a trip into the unknown, and you don't realise when you are in it that everything is a stage and that it passes and evolves every few weeks. As someone else said, at 12 weeks the fog will begin to lift.

Be happy in the knowledge that you are giving your baby not only the best start in life with breast milk, but also creating a secure bond by co-sleeping and spending so much time close to your baby. What people forget is that you are playing the long game, you want the child that is confident and secure later, runs off and doesn't look back and is not clinging to your skirt. So you have to put in the work now to show them that you are there for them, gain that trust now so they let go later.

FurryGiraffe has it spot on, we are just animals and it is easy to forget that, look into what happens to the baby's heart rate and breathing when they sleep away from their mother. It is not always natural the way the Western world expects babies to be raised, I blame the Victorians.

It really does go by so fast, I am secretly delighted (well not delighted they are upset or sick that is) if my 3 year old or 2 year old has a nightmare or isn't well and wants to sleep with DH and I - I curl up with them and kiss their pudgy, sleeping faces, I miss the night time baby cuddles and I know in no time they'll be moody teenagers crossing the road to avoid being embarrassed by me!

My tip with the snoozepod or sleepyhead thing, or moses basket, whatever you want to use, is to put a hot water bottle or one of those electric heat pads in first and make it nice and warm then take it out - they seem to sense the temperature change when you put them down, so if it is body temperature they don't notice the transition as much. And don't put them down until their arms have gone floppy, wait until they are in a deeper sleep/have been sleeping for about 10-15 mins.

[ThirtyNineWeeks]

Thanks, Olympics. Do you think my boy will ever sleep alone? When does reflux disappear?

[ThirtyNineWeeks]

Apple, thanks for your suggestions.

[olympicsrock]

OP sorry to derail. 39 weeks .... If my ds can do it there is hope for any baby. Ds had gaviscon and ranidine the reflux was awful but improved dramatically around 12 weeks. If you have to hold them upright because of reflux they become used to the constant closeness and then it becomes even more difficult to put them down. Plus you are so tired you can't bear the screaming so stop trying. I am going to pm you.

[seefeld]

I remember this stage well! I read something on here about the 'Fourth Trimester' and it really helped me through it as I realised it was just a stage and wouldn't last forever: sarahockwell-smith.com/2012/11/04/the-fourth-trimester-aka-why-your-newborn-baby-is-only-happy-in-your-arms/

Are there any breast feeding meet up groups in your area? Might be a good way to meet some other mums more supportive of your choices

[Churchillian]

OP, please carry on doing what makes you and your baby happy - it sounds like you're both doing great. I did the same (BF and co-slept) and both of mine went in their cot as they got bigger and slept for longer but do it at the pace that suits your baby.

You could try and find some more BF friendly mums to hang around with - have you got a baby cafe or La Leche League meetings near you? I also recommend reading 'The Womanly Art of Breastfeeding' - for more information and support for your choices.

[ThirtyNineWeeks]

Olympics, what an amazing woman. Thank you

[MigGril]

Felloutofbed where did you get that rubbish from.

The only reason why formula can make SOME very small babies sleep more is that it is harder for them to digest then breast milk. Think of it like eating a Christmas dinner, you just want to sleep afterwards. Breastmilk is way easier for a baby to digest, this doesn't mean it contains any less calories.

In fact if you read kellymom.com on expressing you'll learn an amazing fact the amount of Breastmilk a baby needs in 24 hours goes up in the first 4 weeks. Then it stops, the volume of milk then doesn't change at all. What does change is the constancy of the milk. It's why if you donate milk, to a milk bank they will only take it until your baby is 12 months some will only take till 6 months. The milk changes a lot. Milk for a toddler is different for a newborn. Our bodies are this amazing. For all of you asking but what about growth spurts well yes, babies sometimes need a bit more but they think what happens is baby demands more then this triggers a change in your milk constancy. Milk changes baby stops demanding more as it's more filling again, your body reacted to the change.

Same with when they are ill your body makes antibodies to help fight any infection they may have. Your an extension of their immune system, this falls down slightly in our modern society as separation from your baby (childcare ect) means you don't always get exposed to the same germs they do but it still helps.

[FellOutOfBedTwice]

MigGril it's not rubbish. I wasn't saying it was a bad thing that breast milk is more watery than formula- it's just a fact. The fat ratio to water ratio is higher in breast milk than artificial simulations of breast milk. I breast feed my daughter but know this is true as my best friend is a midwife and did her dissertation on the fat/water ratio of breast milk vs formula and used some of mine as an example.

[TreeSparrow]

First post: "formula will probably be making them sleep better because it's got a fat to water ratio something like four times higher than breast milk"

Second post: "The fat ratio to water ratio is higher in breast milk than artificial simulations of breast milk"

So which is it? You've just said the opposite?

[FellOutOfBedTwice]

Apologies Tree I meant water/fat not fat/water... I've been up since 4am, it's been a long day!! Not sure why all the agression towards me though, I'm not even saying anything controversial. I'm supporting OPs decision to breastfeed.