Should I give up on breastfeeding for a better routine? feeling like everyone is doing things right apart from me :(

[MYA2016]

So my baby boy is 8 weeks old. We have a huge issue with him sleeping alone. We have a snuzpod which he's slept in twice in total and the moses basket has never been slept in. He sleeps on me every night and during the day too if I can get him to actually sleep in the day.
We've tried and tried to get him down on his own but nothing works. I've beat myself up over it and heard the 'rod for your own back' shit more times than I care to remember.
I never intended to bed share but it's all that works and we get 8 hrs sleep a night (he only wakes up once for a feed)
however on meeting the other 8 ladies from antenatal classes, I've realised I'm the only one still breastfeeding. They are now all formula or combination feeding and seem to be getting on fine! Their babies sleep alone happily. They're telling me that breast milk is watery and probably not filling him up which is why he doesn't settle on his own for long as he's not really filling up or getting tired. Does this sound correct? He doesn't really sleep in the day unless he's In the car.
I feel like I'm doing everything wrong as their babies go to bed at 8pm and sleep well on their own. Mine comes to bed with us at 10.30 and sleeps with us.
I know you shouldn't compare but would formula feeding make him less clingy? I don't usually feel down about this but it's really got to me this weekend

[Emma367]

I just wanted to say that it sounds like you're doing an absolutely amazing job and you should definitely keep going as you are

[artisanroast]

Another brilliant piece of advice I think is to surround yourself by likeminded people...

My best 'mum friends' are also mums who breastfeed on demand with babies who were born within a week or 2 of my daughter. I didn't plan it like that but I can say we are all going through broadly similar things at approximately the same time. It's very reassuring to feel zombie-like from sleep deprivation next to other mums looking and feeling the same

[artisanroast]

Did you see this wee video clip

www.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10205418094283081&id=1571522799

I have shown a few people now, including my husband. Anyone who assumes babies should sleep all night. They shouldn't. It's their way of protecting themselves. Breastfeeding helps both with nutrition, antibodies, allergy prevention and reduces the risk of sids. If you can continue. I know it's challenging at times

xx

[Trickytricky]

Haven't read the entire thread but read first page. I just wanted to say ignore your antenatal group - breastmilk is not watery! My DD is EBF and has sleep through since she was 8 weeks. It is not true that FF babies sleep better!
If your DS is only waking once in the night he is clearly getting enough from you. I imagine in time he'll drop this last night feed. In order to get him to sleep alone have you tried putting something that smells of you in the snuzpod? He may like the security of having somethin that smells of his mum - as that's all he knows. Perhaps tuck your pjama top in there?

[ingenvillvetavardukoptdintroja]

You are happy.
Your baby is happy (and adorable by the sounds of it)
Your husband is happy.
Your family and friends aren't happy. Why? How can it possibly affect them? Could it be that it makes them feel better to be negative about your parenting? it's bloody rude anyway. I had a lovely circleof mum friends who all did everything differently but we never judged each other.
Maybe try and meet some other people. Definitely don't hang out with them if they make you feel stressed!
Fyi mine is 1 next week and still wakes at least once in the night. I don't really care what any stupid judgy numpties make of that.

[Finduscrispypancake]

I had a very similar experience. None of my antenatal group stuck with the bfeeding, and some were encouraging me to give up and formula feed so that my DS would sleep better. I found a lot of the constant comparisons and oversharing particularly about sleep very difficult- DS was a terrible sleeper for a while, woke almost every 45 mins for a feed back to sleep- so I was on my knees reading the constant whatsapp messages about little so and so sleeping through the night etc. Have never regretted bfeeding though, at some point you will find a way to get your bed and your nights back, if that's what you need, once you and your baby are ready. You're doing a brilliant loving thing with proven health benefits for both you and your baby.

[Frazzled2207]

Carry on doing as you're doing.
That is great sleep for such a little baby. Mine is 9 months and doesn't sleep that well, and he's in bed with me most of the time.

[Threeunderthree33]

I wanted to add that we co-slept with DC1. Breastfeeding lying down and drifting back to sleep didn't serm like a big interruption to sleep. We found some great advice online about co-sleeping safely.

He is now 5 and we "hot bed". Tonight he is in our bed and we are in the spare room. Tomorrow DH is out in the evening so I will sleep with DS.

Lots of his friends still sleep with their parents, either all night or for part of it. I know only because I mentioned that he sleeps with us sometimes and other parents shared. I love the extra time with him and hanging out in the morning.

Most important rule of the early months of parenting is do whatever is easiest.

[Redhead79]

I should add that although she's much better she still wakes at least twice a night for feeding and we've only managed to get her to go down before 9.30 about 4 times in her life!

[Redhead79]

Just a quick tip on the snuzpod issue...... To start with dd was also a refuser but we solved this by using a baby sleeping bag (zCush) in a phil&teds cocoon (bought on eBay) in the Snuzpod. I think she liked being all enclosed.
She's now 16 weeks and we're just using the zCush as a kind of mattress in the snuzpod. It's quite handy as, if she's having a bad night, I can just pull the zCush with her still on it into the bed with me as it's easy to move her without too much disturbance. I know they're supposed to sleep on a firm mattress but the one in the snuzpod is very hard!

[MYA2016]

So sorry for the late reply, just caught up on the messages.

Thank you for all the advise and information. I have decided that formula is definitely not for us at this moment - at the end of the day I'm on maternity leave for a reason! So who cares if we don't have a routine yet.
like some of you have said I'm really lucky that he only wakes up once. We go to bed at 10.30 and he wakes up between 3-5 am for a feed, then goes straight back to sleep till around 8. But he sleeps right next to me with his head on my shoulder, so close I can feel his breath on my face! The days are different, he will often feed every 1-2 hrs. Sometimes 3-4 hrs if he's fallen asleep in the car.
Some nights I can't a sleep as i lie staring at him wondering how we are so lucky to have such a beautiful baby! I don't mind bed sharing and neither does my husband (yet) but I hate being made to feel guilty over it by other friends and family.
I'm going to continue as we are, sod routines and opinions.
He has been for his jabs today and it broke my heart. He's been cuddled with me since this morning and I find it nice to see that he clearly feels safe and happy in my arms.
Thanks again for making me feel so much better. I think sometimes I just need a bit of a reality check. We can't get everything right all the time but as long as we try our best that's what matters :)

[NiceCurls2222222]

PLEASE don't beat yourself up, babies are clingy, they have lived in your womb for 9 months, body contact is all they know.
More people in the world co -sleep than don't (that's all of Asia, and a lot of Europe) in. Nobody ever thinks that putting a nappy on a baby is making a rod for their back, they know they won't be sending them off to uni still in nappies, well it's the same for co sleeping. Don't worry it will make him "dependant" trust that he will move away from you when he needs to, and he will be a really secure and happy boy cos of all the fab body contact he has had.

When (if?!) you feel sexy again you will find plenty of places that aren't your bed.

Do what works for you as a family, get lots of time with other adults, and please don't compare yourself. Oh and read Three in a Bed by D Jackson, it will give you a totally different perspective.

Congratulations on your boy, enjoy him, and yourself x

[Frazzled2207]

Complete rubbish- he will not be any less clingy if you start bottlefeeding. Sounds like you're doing a great job breastfeeding. My eldest would not be put down at all for ages. He did sort himself out eventually though, they all do.

[Plateofcrumbs]

I found some of the Dr Sears stuff helpful in the early months but I did panic a bit about having a difficult/'high needs' child, whereas it turned out my DS was quite chilled out once we'd got through that phase. I think the 4th trimester concept was most useful for me - especially because it emphasises that it is a phase, it will pass!

[Plateofcrumbs]

But the thing is, thirtynine , it doesn't sound like the OP's baby is hungry or that she is struggling with BFing. If she was at breaking point from broken sleep and a baby feeding every hour of the night I'd be the first to say give DH a bottle of expressed milk or formula and get a bit of rest.

But the baby is only waking to feed once a night which isn't bad at all and OP seems to be getting a reasonable amount of sleep. The main issue is that the baby won't settle independently of his mum which everyone is said is perfectly normal, should improve over time and is unlikely to change by introducing formula.

[MigGril]

ThirtyNineWeeks, but saying formula will create a baby that sleeps is wrong. Your comparing your babies one who was formula fed and one who's breastfed.

But I've had two as well both breatfed. First very bad sleeper just as op disscibes, we resorted to slings and cosleeping. She had reflux as well, if fact I would go as far as to say she probably dictated my patenting style as I couldn't have put her down. Second Baby also breatfed, was a dream put himself into his own 3 hour routine from day one. In fact I'm sure the GF book was written for him, but by then I liked slings and Co sleeping. So we did it anyway but just got more sleep because we had a baby who sleep 10 hours at 10 weeks. I did nothings, this is how they where not what I made them do. And I have no doubt that formula wouldn't have made first baby sleep any better just like solids didn't help when she was weaned either.

With sleep babies just are what they are, yes you can help them to an extent. Set up good patterns, but sometimes personality has a lot to do with it as well.

Any one who hasn't read DrSears mite find him really useful on this topic to. He's an American pediatrician, but has his own children to. Talks a lot about high needs babies.

[Gingernut81]

Apologies if some of this has been said already! Have you tried warming the Moses basket/snuzpod with a hot water bottle? We found with DD it tricked her a little at night in to thinking she was next to me. We also found that she slept better in her carrycot to start with, we then progressed on to Moses basket & then bednest. As for day time naps, she's still a little Bugger! Had the screaming ab dabs today when I tried to put her to sleep in her cot

[ThirtyNineWeeks]

*Skaggit = slag

[ThirtyNineWeeks]

Let's not Skagit off the OPs mates. Formula is more filling, bfing is not easy for everyone (as I discovered in the market toilets yesterday, gagging from the smell of turds and bleach) and not breastfeeding does not create unloving, insecure, poorly babies. Routine is priceless to some women, as is quality sleep. Those of us who evangelise about breastfeeding without acknowledging what a fucking arduous and painful slog it can be are usually militant in our disdain of formula and routines (because, let's face it, we don't have the luxury of quality sleep for a long, long time to come).

My dd is two and was a formula-fed Gina Ford smasher. My seven-week-old darling son has reflux and I have had to surrender to slings, co-sleeping, breastfeeding on demand and a fiercely extortionate Sleepyhead.

I'd give my left arm and both my massive, leaky, pendulous breasts for the routine of two years ago...

[MigGril]

But that's the problem you can't make direct comparison with formula. I don't think even general compression help.

Formula fed babies often have to be given large amounts, 6-7oz bottle's at a time. This is huge amount for a baby to take. If you look at how much Breastmilk often they will only take 3-4oz expressed bottle's this seems to be a normal amount per feed. If you go off the expressed recommendations.

Formula companies are constantly trying to make formula more like Breastmilk and the newer formulas actually are whey baised the old ones where casien baised and harder to digest. The olds are still available and are actually label as hungrier baby formula and are sometimes marketed as helping babies sleep. But they are just harder to digest.

But I still think that feeding in general often doesn't make any difference to a baby who just needs holding all the time. Doesn't matter how they are fed if they want holding they are going to want holding.

[Freezingwinter]

It sounds like you are doing great! 8 week old babies are meant to be clingy. Tiny babies are meant to wake through the night, it's natures way of protecting against sids. Yes breast milk is easily digested it also has great benefits. If you want to try formula then do, but like you I find bf so much easier than faffing with water bottles powder etc. I think the ladies in your an group are idiots and probably lying too. 8 weeks old is too young for a set structured routine, you and your baby will find your own rhythm. And the rod for your back comments piss me right off, tell them to mind their own!

[Fugghetaboutit]

I have a dusty snuzpod too

Dd is 9 weeks and has napped in it ONCE.

I'm pretty jealous of yours waking up once a night mines up every 2/3 hours to eat round the clock

Sounds like a normal baby. Follow your instinct. He's only little and doesn't realise you're a separate person yet. He's been inside you for 9 months so is still adjusting.
Don't worry about anyone else.

[Whatdoidohelp]

Your antenatal groups are morons. You are giving your baby the absolute best start. I do not understand the obsession with getting teeny babies to sleep through the night . Their tummies are tiny. They need filled regularly. If the other mums in your group are happy to stretch out their tummies with large quantities of formula so be it.

[FellOutOfBedTwice]

Well yes of course, and it changes depending on the weather too doesn't it- but as a general rule when talking generally about breast milk it is higher in water and lower in fat. I seem to recall in the study I subsequently read on my friends recommendation there was mention that the curds (fat) and whey (water) in breast milk lean towards more whey whereas dairy (and subsequently formula) lean towards more curd. Also, human curd is not as heavy as dairy curd and therefore easier for human babies to digest. Hence they appear to drink more than their formula fed counterparts.

[MigGril]

Breastfeeding doesn't stay the same though you can just state that. Formala is a consistent product that doesn't change.

Breastmilk changes with the growing needs of your child, this is what makes it totally different and what makes your statement wrong. It may have been that at the time your milk tested. But it won't have stayed like that, like in said that is why milk banks won't accept milk from mums after a certain age.