Extending naps. .any advice.

[FifiFerusha]

Apologies. .seems I am a serial poster on here oops.

Anyway, my DS is almost 6 months. He has started self settling for most naps and bedtimes and will only cry if there is an issue(hunger, lost blanky) etc...I am soo pleased. However he is still a short napper regardless(about 40 mins really). Sometimes he has randomly gone longer than this. I don't know why.

So, when he gets to the transition what do I do? I don't want to go in and settle him myself as he may get used to this and stop self settling. He is a distracted baby and will only really feed on wake up in his room so sometimes I will go in and feed him at transition and he may go back to sleep for another 10 mins or so. He seems to be ok with a mixture of feeding to sleep and self settling but has started to get annoyed with any shhing and stroking now. I would really like to get him on a 2,3 then 4 hour wake up routine but he just isn't ready as his short naps means I can just about get away with putting him down after about 1 hour 50 ish of being awake and he is asleep usually 20 mins later. Has anyone had success trying to manipulate nap extension or should I just go with the flow and see if it happens naturally?

Also, what about wake to sleep? Tried it once and he woke right up very angry.

Cheers x

[FifiFerusha]

Oh dear FATE, least it's a one off, fingers crossed.

Right so spent my day trying to get DS to nap in the travel cot....ummm, he is not too happy about it. Even with me there he is wriggling as much as he can and is slightly frustrated with the lack of space in which to do acrobats...ooh :(. On a good note last time we went a way he strangely slept though until 6 every night after DF. I have racked my brains trying to think why. Even down to whther it is when the heating goes on in our house etc....

[Doboopedoo]

Thanks for that message of hope and encouragement, hehe! We only had one wake up last night at 430 so pretty good in my book. Enjoy your nap later FATE!

[FATEdestiny]

Regarding early mornings, at 3.20am today my 11 year old decided to come and snuggle in our bed (bad dream apparently). Then at 6.20am my 6 year old arrived, so four in the bed. This from a household where no one is normally awake before 7am.

Over a decade of parenting and the early mornings and disturbed nights still haven't fully gone away.

Afternoon nap for me today, I reckon!

[Doboopedoo]

Oh I'm going away in s couple of weeks as well, to my folks, last time we went there it was a disaster sleep wise at night and she was still napping on me so that wasn't as bad. Settling her back to sleep wasn't easy in the travel cot!
I've got a poddle pod I might see if she settles for a nap in that, but I might be confusing the issue with it.
Ah babies - such a minefield!!

My DD isn't moving anywhere yet and I'm dreading that from a sleep point of view. I just stay with her in the room for her naps so I can hopefully catch her to self settle when it happens.

[FifiFerusha]

Least it was a bit later, heading the right direction. Mine was up at 3.30 am but fed back to sleep then up at 6. Refused to self settle today so am going to start staying in the room for settling. He needs a bit of help and what is frustrating is that he makes his way all the way to the top of the cot and starts banging it. No wonder he can't get to sleep...argh and going away at half term so don't know why I a trying so hard. Best put him in the travel cot for naps next week. Here's hoping it is the answer to my problems and has better naps in there. Mm, I doubt it.

Ps I am really bad at comsistency. I set a challenge and always end up giving in. .hence the reason why I am back to rocking again.

[Doboopedoo]

5am wake up this morning! We went with it as figured by the time she settled then the shower would wake her. However DH went back to bed - getting up for a shower at 645 just when DD needed to go down for nap! So she slept for twenty minutes did a big poo and refused to resettle. Smashing. She's now asleep on me, so much for consistency!

[FifiFerusha]

Interesting as my DS has the same bedtime as your DD( would do it later but he is wired from 6) 'part from that I am trying not to accept that his waking at 5.30 is morning wake up( can't fit the first nap in with an early wake up, .argh school run) our LOs seem to follow a similar pattern though and both are bad nappers. Must also add that they both sleep in a room where their cot is next to the bathroom wall. . .ha x

[Doboopedoo]

Ooh that's a thought Fifi - I might not rush to feed her so quickly and hopefully that might push things back a bit. DH does like to go into her room in the morning as soon as she wakes being all cheery, but maybe if we just left her chatting we could gradually bring wake up time forward.

DD is normally awake for the day about 530/6ish which is early, but DH gets up then anyway and she wouldn't sleep through his shower anyway. We stupidly put her cot on the wall next to the bathroom, doh. Means she goes to bed about 630pm but that works for us.....just now anyway.

These babies need a little bit of gentle manipulation from us anyway - especially if you have more than one, I'm only just coping with one!

[FifiFerusha]

Hi,

I hope your 2.30 wake up was just a random one.Just a thought, isn't there something about feeding slightly later and later every morning to change an early waking. My DS started waking at 5 ish randomly for a couple of days and then got his feed then, so he got in the habit of waking at 5 ish. I then went in a little later over a few days(accidentally, I was coming round myself :)). So now he tends to wake a bit later for that feed and managed 5.40 this morning. Still have to rock him to get him back to sleep at that time again( he still seems tired) and mainly to get him through DP's noisy shower.. .not bitter at all :) worth a try unless your DD gets upset about it.

Great to have mumsnet and others around in similar positions. However I am starting to realise there is only so much manipulation our LOs will take. I think sometimes I try too hard :) x x

Now, next mission, can I persuade DP to not shower(nah, can't manipulate that one, oh well)?

[Doboopedoo]

You both have encouraged me through this as well - I'm nowhere near there yet but have stuck at it more than I would have done under my own steam!
We didn't have a 4am waking last night - we did at 230 but I managed a couple of hours sleep after that so feeling not too shattered today!x

[FifiFerusha]

I think I have been quite impatient and maybe rushed DS into self settling so of course it isn't perfected yet and there is still time. I didn't know half the things I know now with my first and my DD has never self settled. We still have to sit by her bed until she is asleep and she is 5yo(that should be another thread really:)) Hence my determination to get DS to SS.

I usually leave him to it but go in and help if he calls. It has been better today and with a bit of encouragement and extra checks, sshh's etc, he is now self settling, just taking a bit longer. I have still tried to catch him at transition but it isn't working. Wish he would sleep in a bouncy chair.

Thank you for all your support and guidance FATe and Doboopedo x x keeping me sane :)

[FATEdestiny]

I didn't used to stay with her all the time she napped in the cot (unless I fancied a nap myself, since her cot was in my room), just while she went to sleep is what I meant. Then I'd leave the room when she was asleep.

However while naps were still short (as with yours) she was napping downstairs so at that point I was always there all the time she was asleep - because she was usually right at my feet in front of the sofa. So I could see any minute, tiny change to indicate she might be stirring slightly and so would do a few gentle bounces to lull her back to sleep.

[Doboopedoo]

Hopefully he will get back into the swing of it FiFi - you had done fantastically well! It might be about stepping back and starting again but it can be done, stick with it.
Looking at FATE's post above, I stay with DD during all of her cot naps - she only slept on me before so at least it gives me some time to step out if I need to it or just move my left arm freely! I think I'll be staying with her to get her to sleep for a while yet (even though I often don't actively do anything to settle her, just leave her to it)
I read on another thread (and I think it may have been FATE that said it) that if the work is put in in the first year then we shouldn't have to be fixing problems later on. Trying to repeat this to myself as DD fails to resettle for another nap!!

[FATEdestiny]

At least you tried.

I've always kept mine in the bouncy chair until naps have extended and then moved naps to the cot, rather than moving to the cot and then extending.

your LO has learnt to self settle and then refuses to, do they remember quite quickly again

I didn't want to leave you unanswered, but not sure I can be any help. My journey was very different to yours.

Our journey through gradual withdrawal started at newborn and took right through until about 12/13 months old. By that age DD was able to access her own comfort and security needed to go to sleep on her own in the middle of the night and at bedtime. Until that point, I was with her to go sleep. So at 6 months old my expectation would not have been self-settling.

My older two sons were sleeping independently by 6 months old, so a comparable age to your DS. But they had a dummy to go to sleep and had stopped waking in the night they both continue to be very deep sleepers, so again not comparable.

While there were brief episodes of needing extra reassurance (when poorly, for example), this has not stopped my children from being able to go to sleep alone with their dummy and comforter, once they have reached the developmental stage when they could do this. I suppose it was a bit like learning to ride a bike for us, as in its a skill they didn't "unlearn".

I am sorry I cant be more helpful. Life would be dull if everyone parented in the same way

[FifiFerusha]

So, I can safely say I am not going to keep going with extending naps for now. it got me in a little trap whereby DS had forgotten how to SS due to the intervention given in transition, and learnt it is easier to be hugged by me(which has been lovely though). However, I am really back to square one and have been trying everything but rocking just to get him to sleep. It has been horrible today. Literally sat with him trying to shh stroke him but he just cried the whole time. i didn't know what to do. He has had two 30 minutes naps in his cot today and caved in at catnap. Which he always resists. My friend has lent me her sling(posh, lovely, "I want it", expensive one) to see if that will help and he actually fell asleep in that, so got an extra 30. 1 and a half in one day. I had a different and really happy baby when he was sleeping bet. 2.5 to 3 ...very sad.

So my new plan is to, take a step back, go with the short naps and just try and get him to self settle again. so gutted that all the hard work went wrong. Don't suppose anyone knows, if your LO has learnt to self settle and then refuses to, do they remember quite quickly again? clutching at straws.

I tried hard but I failed...hands held high.

On a good note he did self settle for BT, but that is sometimes the easiest one to get him down. x

[FifiFerusha]

My 4 am wake ups seemed to have changed to 5 .30 but I think is more to do with introducing tea, and him therefore not waking at 10 for DF. He will have a big feed at 5.30 and then I have to stay with him and rock him to sleep. Daps noisy shower in the next room doesn't help.

So far my nights haven't really changed regardless of daytime sleep so that tells me it is habitual wakings( I think)

Ps my DS likes to play with a muslin too x

[Doboopedoo]

Oh no! But at least you know he can do it and hopefully should get back into it quickly. I currently have DD asleep on me so I obviously struggle with consistency!!

How are you getting on with 4am wakings? I gave DD a muslin last night to play with and think she resettled herself when she woke then. Either that or she happily played with it for an hour which is when I woke up next!! Oops if that was the case....

[FifiFerusha]

Argh, not so.

My advice now is not pick up and cuddle your DS to get through transition. As I said mine got poorly and kept up with this a big too long. Since that day of bad sleep he now will not settle without a cuddle and a rock, will neither transfer. So, am gonna have to scrap nap extending and go back to square one with helping him to settle. Am hoping he will remember quickly. Sometimes your on it and you get somewhere then it's back to the start again. Hope it was just a bad weekend. Fingers crossed( all that hard work arghhhhhhh)
X

[Doboopedoo]

thanks FiFi, we haven't had a huge deal of success since then but she can do it so I will persevere! Some days you just need to write off, hope things have been better since then x

[FifiFerusha]

yay,yay so pleased for you :) i have been at it for over a week I think and only left him yesterday but was in his room observing. Some of the time (afternoon nap) I pick him up and hug him back to sleep. In my mind I am just trying to get him used to the idea that a nap can be longer. It will take me more time this way but am trying to be patient(not easy) and do some kind of gradual withdrawal(whatever its called)...I think i have a few more weeks ahead of me as i think i may be inflicting him with a 7 month or so sleep routine.

today is one of those bad days..didn't sleep in sling at performance, couldnt self settle back home as over tired and slept on me for 20 mins,then bang, awake. he is now giggling at everything...don't know why he does this when he is over tired.....oh well, it cant always work out, tomorrow is a new day xxx

[Doboopedoo]

I did it I did it I did it! I resettled her in cot! Nap is ongoing!!
(Fully aware this is just once but it's progress)
How long did it take you to be confident leaving DS FiFi to resettle himself?

[Doboopedoo]

Determination is good FIFi, you're doing fantastically! I do struggle a bit with consistency if things aren't working so you are encouraging me to keep at it.
I haven't managed a successful resettle yet but came so close yesterday morning - I thought she was back to sleep again, then the eyes popped open, face went red - time for a poo So that didn't help matters....
I've got her in the cot just now (530 wake up so early nap), will try again shortly.
I still haven't cracked the 4am thing - it was 340am this morning....yawn!

[FifiFerusha]

Do- yes, DF isn't for all babys, still haven't worked out whether it helps mine :) How was your day today?

So, success, this morning i sat in his room and heard him go through transition but left him to it. He resettled, jolted, resettled, all by himself and had an hour and 25 min nap. Again am struggling with the afternoon nap on daily basis, as he takes so long to settle, up to 30 mins or so. i have tried putting him down, later or earlier, but makes no difference and then resettling is a struggle. It's possible bad timing on my part but I am trying to fit the naps in between school runs as he has resisted catnap since about 3 months and will not sleep in his pram.

This is roughly what happened today if anyone can see why the afternoon is a problem. it is possible that his awake times are too long but not sure how else to fit it in.

W 6.35
S- 9.15- 10.40 settled in five mins(wow). Long wake up i know but he will not sleep on the school run.
S 1.45- 2.55 -went up at 1.00(showing tired cues yawning, eye rubbing), so fed in room(he will not feed to sleep now so do it before naps so I can rule out hunger at transition) and hoped he would be asleep by about 1.20, no such luck
Fell asleep - 1.45 ( he self settled but didn't cry just blew raspberries and did his funny sleep mantra for ages)

Stirred- 2.20 ish, needed to be hugged, struggled with transfer to cot so he was up and down in between hugs, while sleeping until 2.55(good timing though as getting to the school after this by 3.15 is a military operation)
BT 18.40 - settled in about ten minutes

Tomorrow i have to play by ear as DD has a performance at school slap bang on time with DS's morning nap time( hope sling works..but guess what, he wont sleep in that now :)...wish me luck)

Sorry about constant posting...i am a bit too determined x

[Doboopedoo]

I haven't tried a dream feed - we used to have a wee routine where we woke her before our bedtime and fed her then but if not woken she didn't look for it so we stopped. I'm a bit wary if it as she has silent reflux and can get quite gassy after a feed so don't want her to be uncomfortable while sleeping.

I don't envy you having more than one (or FATE having four!!)think one is enough for me at this rate!

I still haven't managed a successful resettle but trying to be consistent with using the cot when I'm home so at least that's something!

[FifiFerusha]

He's doig ok thank you. Resettled easily this morning but struggled this afternoon. spent 40 mins rocking him back to sleep but it worked. now have to go and wake him up for the school run. Think I am getting the timing of this nap wrong but have to make it work around life.

Dos- just a thought regarding nights. Will yours take a DF? You feed them in deep sleep so they really don't wake up and can just put them back down again. they don't tend to get very windy dream feeding either. I have done his since 8 weeks but unfortunately my ds started to wake for it. I skipped it last night though as he didnt and he woke at 3am. some babys really take to it though. it helped my DD sleep through from 4 months, a life saver x anyway just a thought...good luck...right off to wake him and rush off....oohhh :(