Stopping feeding to sleep - cold turkey or other props

[Natalie77]

Got to stop bf to sleep. It's so bad now I can't put my boob away, she searches for it and wakes up if I don't get it in her mouth within a few mins (20 at most) and won't take her fingers or mine as a substitute.

Tried pu/pd for one horrid day, and pantleys gradual withdrawal. We're just not at a place where I can get straight to goal (put down, sleep on her own) without a lot of crying, and she's only 3 months.

How did you guys break it? I'm thinking of walking her to sleep. I know shell cry but at leart I'l be with her, and I know it's just another crutch, but maybe not as strong and easier to get to cot in a few months? She won't take a paci either...

[Natalie77]

Thanks for the hope hedgehogging and schokolade! It's weird you say that, schokolade,I've been persevering with dummies- the old bait and switch nipple out dummy in- with little success. But today I tried it lying down, and moved her so her back was to me, - 'moving the milk'- and her head on my arm, put dummy in and cuddled her close and she slept 2 hrs, with me replacing dummy frequently. Bf position, but away from the milk, as you say.

Wouldn't be a nighttime solution as we couldn't sleep like that, but maybe something getting her used to dummy, not nipple, to sleep. Alas tried her 10 mins ago and fAiled. She was grumpy though, so maybe it'll work again when she's in better humour. Hope at least!

[schokolade]

Oh and ours didn't really take a dummy before this either...

[schokolade]

We've been having similar issues with our six month old Natalie. We've made some progress by having DH lie the baby on the crook of his arm, on her side, in the bed. Basically exactly the position she feeds to sleep on, but with DH. Then, where my nipple would be he puts a dummy for her so Suck. Worked like a charm when nothing else would.

We had to try a few types of dummy. She definitely has preferred ones.

[Hedgehogging]

I should add that the rock/walk/shush to sleep week did definitely help and she will now fall asleep for naps while cuddled/rocked in my arms with dummy in. So that's pretty decent! But as it ended up being a gentle "no cry" approach, it did take a good 5 or 6 weeks for us to get to where we are now!

[Hedgehogging]

I'm not sure I have much to offer but DD is 15 weeks and I'm just back to work so wanted to figure out an alternative to feed-to-sleep.

To be honest my approach was so mish-mashed I don't know if it even counts as an "approach"!

I started with a classic bedtime routine (hadn't had one before)- PJs, song, feed, bed. Up till then she'd have done non-nutritive sucking for ages before finally conking and falling off boob. So instead I removed boob when she finished the feed proper and then did rocking/walking in my arms and shushing/white noise. When she drifted off I'd gently put her in cot with some white noise on.

Initially she'd wake instantly on hitting the cot, start protesting, and I pick her up and start the rocking again.

This went on for about a week- on nights she was particularly resistant I would "give in" after a bit and boob her again. TBH I was really stressed by it and it made bedtimes reallllly long. And even though it was a theoretically "no cry" approach, in reality DD did often cry in my arms as I tried to calm/rock/cuddle.

So I decided to forget about it after the week or so and just feed her to sleep again. BUT I did the Pantley Pull off (very gently and gradually) and then I'd put her in cot with a hand on her chest and more often than not she'd settle- if not, back to boob. I think the rocking to sleep week, though exhausting, did give her some alternative to boob to sleep.

I started this all around 11 weeks I think because she'd stopped cluster feeding by then and seemed ready for earlier bedtime.

Now, we do bedtime routine, feed till lightly asleep, then into cot with white noise (Ewan the sheep) on as a little prop for her. She's now beginning to master thumb-sucking but the dummy is an alternative (something she used to reject in disgust but I kept gently offering regularly and she'll now take it long enough to nod off)- one or the other and a hand on her chest and I lie my head on her cot side and close my eyes. She usually wakes when put in cot but now, hallelujah, will shuffle a bit, look up at me for the odd sneaky smile, and slowly drift off to sleep.

Seeing that written down makes me so proud of the little mite!

So it was sort of a mix of what I considered a failed week of trying to rock to sleep, a "fuck that" and return to much lovelier (for us both) feed to sleep but with a few gentle changes (bedtime routine, pull off, and white noise), and now a really lovely, cuddly and happy routine that works for us both.

Eventually I'll push the feed back and make it more separate from the sleep bit but not till she's older and more ready.

I do think DD was a bit young during the rock to sleep week (reading stupid sleep blogs was what made me think I needed to change things!) but in hindsight I do think she then transitioned into a more flexible stage then that allowed some softly softly alterations to the boob pattern.

To be fair though she wasn't quite as stuck to boob as your LO but maybe you might find some of this rambling, massive essay helpful? I can't believe I'm giving advice really as I feel I totally spoofed it! But I do now like bedtime again and as PPs have said it's really allowed me to get back to cherishing DD and our lovely nighttime cuddly feeds

[Natalie77]

Thanks. I won't cry it out, she's too young, I know, but I can't go on for another 3 like this! I don't want to feel resentful, and I want to give her my time when she's awake, not when she's asleep.

So I want to explore gentler methods (she doesn't like the sling either; I wonder if I left using that too late. She might come to like it, I guess, I know most do.) I was hoping a mumsnetter might have some advise on transition; walking her, rocking her, holding on lap, anything not cry it out, pu/pd or gradual withdrawal?

[amouseinawindmill]

Don't feel guilty. The antsy "get off me" feeling used to affect me too (DS now 5yrs so thankfully well past this phase!).
I can see both sides here. On the one hand, you are feeling trapped and resentful at being used as a sleep prop. It is not always magical and dreamy to feed to sleep. Sometimes it is plain boring, relentless, exhausting and frustrating. If it is too much to bear, make a plan with your partner. Maybe initially one nap or evening every other day, you go out of the house and let him experiment with different ways to settle her. Presumably he is slightly less at wit's end than you and may be able to do it more calmly. For what it's worth, at around 4 months when I had a flip out with the whole boob situation, I did this. I went for a nap outside in the car, or a walk, while DH walked up and down the stairs repeatedly while holding DS. For some reason he managed to get him to sleep and put him down, giving me the time it took for DS to drop off plus up to two hours of blissful peace from being touched.

On the other hand; 3 months is classic growth spurt time and it may help to read the Wonder Weeks to understand what is going on for your baby. It was uncannily accurate in its timings for the sleep and feeding craziness for my DS.

In the end I found the hatred of feeding to sleep came and went. As they start to need fewer naps, you escape a bit. Persevere with the buggy though. Mine needed to be pushed over rough gravely ground to stop crying and go to sleep. Took me a while to figure that one out.

Personally I would steer clear of active cry it out techniques at 3 months, but would be more comfortable with a baby crying in the arms of someone who is not me, if I was well out of earshot.

[Natalie77]

Yes it's lovely to look down and see her little face, but I cannot get away. It's 430 now, and I cannot detach her from my boob, she's been sleeping an hour this wake up,for example, but every 15 mins or less after she lets go, it's squirm squirm lunge and back on. I don't want to be sitting here thinking 'just get off me', but I am which makes me feel horribly guilty and just awful. I have to get her to sleep 4 Times or more each waking. Likewise on mental health front I say no life because I can't really leave house; stroller and car both become mini cry it out sessions as they make her sleepy but, oops, no boob, so heart rending screams for half an hour, I do it for essentials but can't put her through that just to get some air. Public places are out, I've bf many times out, but it's one thing to feed and another to sit there for an hour with your boob out while she naps. It is possible to go to other people's houses, journey hell notwithstanding, but all I can do is sit there once she gets tired, and her awake times are short, although it gives a change of scene... She also wakes as soon as car/stroller stops moving, so even after 30 mins screaming, maybe just 5 mins sleep. I just can no longer find it a beautiful thing, much as I'd like to, which again, guilt.

Apparently reading that I needed to get that off my chest, as I cannot get HER off my chest!

[MrsHY1]

What hollie said. My DD actually went full circle at about 8 weeks old and wouldn't feed to sleep, but didn't know how to sleep on her own either. It was hideous to see her caught between a rock and a hard place! I don't think it's unrealistic for small babies to be settled to sleep without feeding. I can only comment on my (limited) experience with an NCT group and three very close friends, but after 6 weeks old only one LO (mine) still fed to sleep.

[hollie84]

If what you are doing works well for you, then definitely keep on doing it. But don't assume everyone's experiences are the same.

[shinynewname]

Seems like harder work to make the tiny baby change I guess.

[hollie84]

Many may prefer to, but if it isn't working for the mother then there's no harm in changing things.

[shinynewname]

Maybe some tiny babies don't feed to sleep, but I've not known many that don't prefer to?

Just seems normal baby behaviour to me.

[hollie84]

I'm not sure why not feeding to sleep isn't realistic?

[shinynewname]

I think we were trying to indicate that her 'goal' of having the baby not feed to sleep and just be put down was not terribly realistic at 3 months.

So an element of trying to relax, or try a sling or something might help with feeling stressed about having 'no life' :)

Waking frequently and needing bf to sleep is normal tiny baby behaviour. It's hard though!

[MrsHY1]

It's all very well to trot out 'enjoy it while it lasts' 'put your feet up and watch the telly' 'she's only tiny' platitudes but the OP has indicated that she's not comfortable with it and wants it to stop. OP I don't know your circumstances but from the sound of your message you're finding it stressful? Is DD waking several times a night and needing your boob to go back to sleep again? I had a DD like this. I ended up seriously sleep deprived with mastitis in one boob and at my wits end. I totally hear what you say about not leaving her to cry but there are gentler methods and they are at your disposal now or months later should/when you decide you'd like things to change.

[ChatEnOeuf]

I loved feeding my DD to sleep. She stopped thinking it was cool at about 11m, around the time she realised it was easier to gulp EBM out of a cup. I couldn't tolerate hearing her cry either, you have my sympathy. If it doesn't feel right to you, I wouldn't do it. Instead, teach her to fall asleep while feeding with the TV on - work on the boob withdrawal when she's a bit older.

[hollie84]

Please do whatever you want to with your baby Elephants :)

[ElephantsNeverForgive]

Baby

[ElephantsNeverForgive]

Hollie Why the fuck would anyone spend 30 minutes hush patting a baby in a darkened room, when you can spend 30 minutes giggling quietly at the Simpson's and snuggling your bay to sleep.

It's stressful, pointless and mad.

[AnythingNotEverything]

I agree with PPs that she too young to worry about this. In just a month she may be showing signs of doing this more herself which you can take advantage of.

[ElephantsNeverForgive]

Honestly she'll only need you like that for a few more months, once she's eatting a decent amount of solids the feeding continually gradually fades away.

At 7months DD2 would happily eat yoghurt and drink juice (she never took a bottle and spat out formula) and let DH put her to bed. I'd escape to the swimming pool, it was bliss.

Seriously you stop having to think of BFing as a chore and worrying about your top being up, who cares, who's watching. Forget the mechanics, just sit back and snuggle.

There are several stupid soppy poems about house work can wait, babies can't, they are as naff as hell and 100% correct.

[hollie84]

I'd persevere with a dummy - try a different type maybe, mine preferred the cherry ones over the orthodontic type. I used to feed DS1 to sleep lying on the bed and then slip my nipple out one side of his mouth while sliding the dummy in the other!

I'd try rocking her to sleep instead and then gradually try putting her down a little more awake each time - continue patting/shushing her in the cot once you've put her down. If she protests just pick her up and rock a bit more. If you want a no-cry approach then it takes longer but is still doable.

[shinynewname]

Also what Elephants just said. I missed the excuse to sit and watch many dvds with my second!

Try to enjoy it sometimes if you can. :)

[shinynewname]

That's the thing in your OP - she is only 3 months. She is tiny. It might seem like a long time to you so far, but I think you are hoping/expecting too much.

It is a bit of a cliche on here, but have you a sling or carrier?

I didn't have one for my first child, but did for my second. It made such a difference to have hands free to have lunch/put washing on/whatever!

I would put him in after a feed and he would sleep fine in there. :)

It is a bit relelntless with a tiny baby, I don't think anyone really expects it!