Others who always have baby in room with them -advice for visiting friend

[AliceWChild]

As per the guidance, we are always in the room with sleeping baby. For various reasons I need to do this. So in the evening he sleeps cuddled on me till we all go to bed.

I'm trying to work out what to do if we are visiting friends. I know they have a different approach and will suggest putting him in another room with monitors. How do other people deal with this? It doesn't feel right to get into a whole SIDS guidelines discussion. But how to explain it without?

I feel like that is a right old ramble but I'm confused and I know from another thread there are others like me out there. Which was a relief to find.

[Andcake]

Just thought I would pipe in as another who is always in the same room with ds when he sleeps. (Ok for some naps I may pop to make a cuppa but the radio is usually on so hopefully that would stop the scary deep sleep). That's just how I understood the guidelines. When visiting others I just get on with it and don't raise it as a conversation issue and no one not even my out dated parents have. I think parenting books are v confusing with their conflicting SIDS advice and then talking about bedtime routines at 7 pm. Personally ds has a two part bedtime routines a chilling out into pjs round 7pm and into the sling then at around 10 he is gently stirred and a feed and nappy change and into his cot in our room. Now he's 6 mo and we are going to try getting him to bed earlier I think I'm going to miss the snuggles.

[1500mmania]

Hi Alice - I can't say for sure as some may have been a combination of the two - rolled onto front & covers on the head (iyswim) but either way the majority of them seemed to have an additional factor putting them at risk.

commix - I don't think it does mention anything else about the car seats it just gives a reference to another study. From looking at that other study it reports, 'Several studies have shown that cardio-respiratory function is compromised in 18.4% to 30.0% of preterm infants tested in a car seat possibly due to excessive head flexion leading to restriction of the upper airway. Preterm infants are particularly prone to head flexion when they are placed in an upright position and therefore more vulnerable to hypoxia and apnea when their neck is flexed' (note preterm infants though = < 37 weeks gestation)

Research is a funny beast and if you look for long enough you can always find something that backs up your opinion (I should know I'm an academic!). I think the important thing is that guidelines are just guidelines and they may be based on research but that doesn't ness mean that it is good research! (iyswim). Obviously take them into account but at the end of the day you have to do what is best for you & your family. Both myself and DS would have gone insane with lack of sleep if I had him in the same room as me all the time and he was in his own room from 3 weeks (gulps).

At the end of the day Alice just do what feels right for you and sod everyone else xxx

[comixminx]

Thanks 1500, very useful! You see these summaries but if you haven't got access to the journal there's a lot of the picture that can be missing. Also, is there any more info about the car seat thing? I know they can't lie flat in a car seat so you're not supposed to have them in it for hours regularly, but I would say that DS naps in his car seat (which is on the pram) most days for an hour or two. Clearly he can't roll over or cover his head with the covers in that, so the risk for car seats must be something else.

[AliceWChild]

Thanks 1500. At the risk of sounding fick as I'm not great with stats, does that mean only 11.5% of daytime deaths weren't where they were on front or with covers on head?

[1500mmania]

Commix & Alice - just had a look at the original research paper 'Sudden Infant Death Syndrome and the time of death: factors associated with night-timeand day-time deaths' that your links refers to on the SIDS website press release. ije.oxfordjournals.org/content/35/6/1563.full.pdf+html

A Brief summary for everyone: of the deaths that occur during daytime sleeps 75% where put to sleep on there side and then rolled prone and 13.5% had bed covers over the head when found.

They therefore conclude, 'In particular we found that unsupervised SIDS infants
were more likely to be found with bedclothes covering their
head. Parental presence during infant sleep does not guarantee
the infant is being constantly observed, indeed this is not usually
the case and SIDS can also occur under closely monitored
conditions. However, having the sleeping infant nearby
during the day may alert parents to circumstances such as
infants rolling from the side to the prone position or bedclothes
covering the infant head or face. In conjunction with this
parents also need to be made aware of the risks associated with
inappropriate sleeping environments for young infants during
day-time naps such as car seats.'

So that is the reasoning behind the guideline (rather than them hearing you breath/ regulate the breathing etc.)

I hope that is useful - I should be doing something far more boring at work!

[constantnamechanger]

Alice I did with the others but this one refuses so I sling him - he is currently asleep in the Moby

[honeytea]

Thankyou for telling me about this thread Alice, it has been realy helpful! I thought I was alone in wanting DS with me all the time, it is comforting to know there are other mummies who feel the same.

I love the phrases recomended to say to family and friends who are pushing for the baby to be left in another room.

I actually really enjoy sleepy cuddle time with my DS, I think other people maybe see me holding DS all the time and think "oh poor honeytea she must want some personal space" but it really feels better having him close.

[teacher123]

Friends shouldn't judge. You do what works for you.

[Wishiwasanheiress]

Direct to op - if u were my friend I'd not comment on u holding babes all night. Or on sharing ur room at any age tbh. Depends on room sizes but I'd probs put 10yr old on blow up bed in with u if room, just easier.

Could put babe in buggy and rock, I've done this. Again depends on room. Not anything else.

[AliceWChild]

Constant, do you put yours in a buggy? I've just realised he's effectively alone then, although I check him obsessively every now and then

[AliceWChild]

Holla, I'm no expert, but from what I've read they don't know why the room thing helps. Breathing is one theory, but could be hearing it or the gasses. Whichever though being in the same room would work whatever you're doing as you're still breathing. I don't think it has to be you though, so yes if others are there breathing its fine too. That's just my understanding of what I've picked up from various sources though. The experts don't know for sure. I don't think it's about longer deeper sleep though either. Again just from what I've picked up you don't want them to sleep deep and long as the baby's short sleep cycle is to protect them. But by you being there they'll wake up with others making noise, moving etc as they should then settle quickly back to sleep without waking you as they know you're there. So it may seem longer to you. (generic yous there). This is just remembering what I've read though, I'm really not an expert.

[constantnamechanger]

I just like having them with me at all times - its my basic instinct - so I go with it.

[HollaAtMeBaby]

I thought the point of the baby being in the room with you was that they would hear your breathing and that helps them to regulate theirs. Makes sense overnight (also because hopefully night sleep is longer and deeper) but I don't see how this works if it's a daytime nap and you're wandering around, maybe talking on the phone, there are other people in the room who are also breathing etc. Can anyone explain?

[birdofthenorth]

I did this and my in laws couldn't help but bark on about the importance of "bedtime". I ignored them. I possibly created a rod for my own back, to be fair, but at for months you're (a) in line with guidelines and (b) best advised to stick to your instincts. Just get on with it and politely refuse any offers of alternative places to settle him.

[AliceWChild]

Thanks nanny. I do need to do that. Sorry to hear about your baby.

[AliceWChild]

It's on your second link comix. Under where should my baby sleep. First sentence says same room day and night. Sorry still on phone so can't copy and paste.

[5madthings]

Yes its easier and snugglier and they are only little once :)

[comixminx]

Oh wait, another search has found this ("Cot death advice should be followed for both day-time and night-time sleeps, new research finds"). Shutting up now...

[NannyPlumIsMyMum]

Ah don't doubt yourself Alice .

Ur right - the SIDS - research indicates that the presence of other people in the room can help to stop baby from entering into too deep a sleep. There are other methods too- but that's a different thread.

There is some indication that when some babies get into too deep a sleep - some of them to put it simply ,forget to breathe ... Breathing noise from others helps to prevent that.

Which is partly where the keeping baby in your room advice comes from. Only partly ..

I had lots of advice on this from HPs as our DS indeed did forget to breathe and had breathing difficulties as a baby.

Go with your instincts always .

[comixminx]

Thanks Alice. My understanding of the guidelines as originally I originally saw them written was that the baby should sleep in the same room as you at night, but not that every nap should be with you in the same room as them (ie I thought the same as Cleo). Nothing I saw at the time spelled out the idea that they should be with you for all naps and to be honest it never even crossed my mind. This NHS page does say that "However, SIDS can also occur when a baby is asleep during the day or, occasionally, while they are awake" so the implication is that you need to be careful during the day but it perhaps rather downplays it. There is a bit on this page which says "Place your baby on their back to sleep from the very beginning, for both day and night sleeps" but otherwise little specific is said about daytime sleeping.

1500, as you say I also understand that there's not that much strong evidence about what actually works and why - I know that the figures for cot death have dropped dramatically since they started giving the current guidelines, but as far as I understand they don't really know what out of the guidelines are the factors that are really making the difference. There are also some anomalies that I've heard of - I think it's something like the fact that Asian families have a low incidence of SIDS but have some widespread cultural practices that are not generally recommended or are even against the recommendations (in the area of co-sleeping). So there's lots that is unknown in this area. One suggestion is that it's down to breathing regulation and so the adult giving a 'model' for breathing would be a positive factor; this sort of thing would suggest that having the baby in the same room as the adult all the time would be definitely beneficial, but I've not seen this expressed as anything other than a plausible idea.

I'm not at all saying this to change the way anyone does anything, but I am interested in how the view has come about that having them sleep with you during the day is an official recommendation. If anyone has any links to forms of words that are stronger than the ones I've seen so far, which to my mind are a bit too vague to form such a recommendation, I'd love to see them!

[AliceWChild]

Yes I find it easier and snugglier too.

[5madthings]

I like the breezy reply idea, oh we find he is more settled with us for now..

I did the same with all my five, up till about 9mths, it just felt right to me.

[constantnamechanger]

I'm way from hardcore - I co-sleep and extended breast feed - thats it really - and they are because I find them easier.

[AliceWChild]

Billy that's the thing isn't it. Horses for courses. If only everyone saw it that way.

[AliceWChild]

Constant yes I'm in my local one and I'd say it loosely how I approach things. Although I don't think I'm proper hardcore.