Civility - what we should and shouldn't allow

[JustineMumsnet]

Hello all,
We've just deleted a thread entitled:
"AM a bit pissed so this isnt gonna be worded as eloquently as one would wish, but Gordon Brown is a bit of a cock sucker so who the fuck are we gonna vote for?" on the grounds that some folk had complained, it's a personal attack and also we'd like to get him on for an online chat and we didn't think leaving it up would be helpful in that regard .

But it did get us thinking about what sort of guidelines (beyond posts which break the law) we should have as a rule, particularly with regard to folk who are in the public eye - celebs etc.

We've always shied away from deleting on the grounds of poor taste (who's taste and where do you draw the line?) and we certainly are not too fussed about swear words. But naturally there's a lot of comment on MN, much of it tongue in cheek for sure, that could be construed as as abusive towards famous folk - equally true is that it's an awful lot tamer than elsewhere on the net.

Mumsnet (as you know ) is pro freedom of speech as a rule and have no wish to censor or stop the conversation flowing. What's more our stated aim is to make parents' lives easier - and a bit of bit of a vent/laugh is often a useful thing but should we intervene more or is it a case of just reminding/ urging folk to be civil and treating each case on it's merit?

Should there be one rule for celebs and one rule for the rest? Had the Gordon Brown comment been made on the thread and not in the title of it, we might have been inclined to let it stand - but does that make any sense?

We'd be very grateful if you'd let us know your thoughts about where you think the lines should be drawn and what sort of level of intervention you'd like.
Ta very mucho,
MNHQ

[Dimpled]

glitterfairy - would it work on words like 'cunting' though or only tradtional swear words/ It does sound good.

Agree with Housemum re watershed - I now think it is a stupid idea as there are those who want some adult stuff in teh day.

[fryalot]

haven't read every post, but fwiw, I think it's fine as it is. It's mostly self-regulated and if people are offended, then they can report the offensive post/thread and you can decide whether to remove it or not.

I think this works

[niceglasses]

I think we are confusing censorship and civility. Okay we knew we weren't going to get a serious political debate on that thread, thats why I refused to be drawn into one. I'd be really really against stopping anyone saying ANYTHING on a political level, but I think cocksucker for ANYONE - celeb,politician,ordinary joe is a step to far. If you went on another site and saw yourself called a 'cocksucker' don't think you'd stop to consider well ' all in the spirit' of non-censorship. I think it comes down to old fashioned manners really and not making personal remarks about anyone. You don't get more personal than 'cocksucker'. If it were a personal blog, I think that would be different somehow - the thoughts are owned by the individual.

[Dimpled]

this has turned into a thread about swearing now - we are no longer answering the question about personla attacks.

[notpph]

i do

[emankcin]

It's completely bizarre. Last week i changed my name becuase i was called many names by many very regular posters for exactly this kind of thing. Now, like children who have found that saying swearwords offends ( Yawn, you are so slow) there is 'shit' in every title "look at me Justine, i just swearded, whatcha gonna do ner ner"

[MrsBadger]

ah, go on, who were you emkancin?
Thought you were a bit eloquent and witty for a newbie

[eemie]

Threads needn't be censored, but there has definitely been an increase in offensive titles recently. On many days a quick scan of active conversations is distinctly off-putting. I resented being faced with the 'pikey chavs' title every time I looked for a while. The swearing and personal attacks are starting to get me down. I come here looking for articulacy and wit. I'm not squeamish but have recently reported offensive posts for the first time in five years on MN.

So Justine, I applaud your decision and would welcome a stricter policy on thread titles.

[glitterfairy]

Cunting comes out as cing yes it does work. It can be annoying though as some pretty ridiculous things like pissed up a tree become ped up a tree but then some people are **al about these things!

[Housemum]

Perhaps what we actually need is a ban on stupid people?? (heehee, just stirring it...)

[Dimpled]

disagree eemie - we will get all fluffybunkins if we go that route. Advise -okay but policing it - no way.

[Dimpled]

glitterfairy is onto something here - that would be fine as long as you have to option to do it or not (would hate to not read 'cunting') but still not address the personal attacks thing. Is there a legal reson for persuing this?

[Enid]

god she is isnt she (a fucking bitch)

[mynoduesp]

Tiscali chat have such filters

[hunkermunker]

LL, I read one of your examples as a teenager being set to fail wanking and I did wonder.

I don't have a view on the rest, really. Up to MN Towers, innit?

[PeachyChocolateEClair]

personally I didnt much like the title when I saw it, its easy to kkip thredds / withdraw if you dont like whats in them, but a bit too much swearing on the tile for this one I thought.

It doesnt happen often though, surely Mn could just put a note asking people to 'consider their thread titles when creating new threads' (much like the SWMNBN message) and that would do it? maybe not for posts from drunken women (as this one was)but I think it would cover the main.

It might also help cull a few of the more personal ones too.

[Housemum]

Personal attacks is tricky - we should be open to say what we like, so long as it's clear it's your opinion. MN already has disclaimers to say that the opinions are that of its members.
The particular thread title did come across as an attack - if she had said, "I'm pissed but I think GB is a cocksucking twat, so who will lead the country" it would be in some ways less offensive as it's quite clear it's her opinion (though just as offensive if you don't like swearing, but if you don't want to see swearing, don't come on a chat site)

[Dimpled]

Enid - who is a fucking bitch?

[Dimpled]

Housemum - I like what you are saying.

[PeachyChocolateEClair]

But why should I not be able to use Mn, given I have been on here since 2001 (ish) in one guise or another, because I don't like swearing in thread titles?

Surely people would prefer to restrict their language in thread titles? After all, this site is supposed to be diverse and open to a variety of opinions isn't it? isn't that half the point of it- people from all walks of life?

Why is it better to tell people to go away than to just modify a word very occasionally?

[Holysmoke]

The swearing is getting tedious and so is the 'don't be prudish/don't be prissy' response to those who object to it.

Externally imposed censorship is a different issue, though, and not something I'd favour.