Personal Attacks on 'Other Women'

[YvaineStormhold]

I've just been on yet another thread where a woman is being called horrendous names such as 'slag', 'bitch' and 'scumbag' because she's confessed to sleeping with a married man.

I've reported the posts to MNHQ, but I wanted to discuss this as a general trend that I've noticed developing on MN in the 10 or so years I've been here.

It seems that personal attacks and judgement are off-limits, except when it comes to OW, and then anything goes.

Is there anything that can be done about this? Surely no matter what someone's relationship history, they should be able to talk about it on MN without being subject to vicious and often misogynistic language?

Could a special eye be kept on OW threads, for example?

[YvaineStormhold]

There's nothing wrong with honest opinions, put kindly.

Or even just put politely.

[firesidechat]

The problem is how do you state your honest opinion of an OW who seems not to care one jot about the wife and children? Any honest opinion is always going to sound harsh, rather than kind.

[MistressMerryWeather]

There's never a good enough reason to go around called women slags and sluts.

I'll be honest, the only time I have seen OW getting a hard time is in threads where they have admitted to knowing the guy was married and didn't give a shit. The reality is that makes you a crappy person and MN isn't somewhere you're going to get your arse kissed over it.

The 'It's so hard being the OW' are a bit too much for some people to take and I can understand why.

[firesidechat]

I agree MistressMerryWeather.

[DawnMumsnet]

Afternoon all,

We've had a number of reports about this thread possibly being a thread about a thread, but we take the OP's point that while it may have been influenced by a certain thread that we deleted earlier, it's asking general questions about the way OW and OM get responded to on the Talk boards. We're therefore happy to let it stand.

As ever, we rely on you lot to report any posts which you feel cross the line. If we take a look and agree that a post is a personal attack, we'll always zap it. We usually send out a mail to the poster in question letting them know why we've deleted their post and asking them to post within our Talk Guidelines.

Of course we can understand why this subject is a sensitive and upsetting one for many of you (and indeed us), but we have to be scrupulously fair in applying our site rules to any reported posts. We'd always ask that you try to make your point without resorting to personal attacks.

Many thanks.

[SilverBirchWithout]

There does tend to be a pack mentality that develops on controversial threads that worries me.

It can be just the bad the other way round on relationship or health threads, with people overly projecting their own personal experiences. For instance when a DP says/does one thing wrong, people pile in saying he's EA or gas-lighting.

I often have to avoid threads where the OP's point of view might need a bit of a gentle challenge to help them see the bigger picture, but everyone's so busy piling in saying all HCPs are crap or LTB you cannot possibly offer an alternative view without the pack turning on you.

Certainly agree that OW need help and support too, people can get themselves into situations that you don't personally approve of, but there is no reason why you cannot offer them help dealing with their situation.

Mind you I never quite get this OW hatred, when someone is embroiled in an affair the most culpable adult is the one who is actually cheating on their partner. It seems to me a deeply entrenched type of sexism to focus on the OW rather than the DP; that old-fashioned view that men cannot help themselves, poor things.

[MistressMerryWeather]

Are you seriously saying you think cheating men get an easy time on MN? :o

If an OW posts a thread about being the OW of course people will focus on her.

[SilverBirchWithout]

No Mistress (how ironic) that is not what I meant at all.

[MistressMerryWeather]

Haven't you ever seen Sleeping Beauty?

Funny how your mind went there.

[SilverBirchWithout]

Don't believe in fairy stories, more grounded in the real world .

[Appleand]

I got no sympathy for OW/OM/people in a relationship having affairs. You reap what you sow. Personal attacks are not allowed of course and name calling is childish but so is actively helping to break a family and not be prepared for an onslaught of problems.

[MistressMerryWeather]

Look at us two being all passive aggressive. :o

[ClashCityRocker]

The only person I know IRL who was an 'other woman' was actually a very vulnerable person who was spun a web of lies.

Of course, his wife didn't love him anymore, they were only together for the kids, him and her were destined to be together....all the bullshit that most people who are in a decent place would roll their eyes at.

She was a 24 year old office junior who had not long come out of an abusive relationship and was pretty much at rock bottom. He was in his forties, affluent and worldly wise. She didn't see it as breaking up a family because he was (apparently ) going to leave his wife regardless.

Was she thoughtless and naive? Yes, certainly.

Is she a bitch and a slag? No. The whole ordeal was a total headfuck and damn near broke her completely, as well as his poor wife. The only person who wasn't a victim was the fucking slimeball who started it off in the first place.

I appreciate on the relationships board there are a lot of women (and men) who have had their lives turned upside down by discovering infidelity. And I think that it is perfectly understandable that they feel such vitriol towards 'other women' in general.

However, when a poster comes to post their specific problems and seek support and hopefully a way out of e situation, calling them all the names under the sun is not helpful.

[Helloandgoodbye]

Well said clash

[starredup]

I agree OP. A lot of the terms used are hugely misogynistic and many posters would object if those terms were used by a man but somehow an OW is fair game.

I've been cheated on but would never, ever refer to another woman as simply a 'hole' or a 'cunt'.

If you think it's okay to refer to another woman as such, then you're agreeing that it's okay to refer to/consider women as just genitals.

I think that's awful and misogynistic and not how any human being should be spoken about.

There are enormous amounts of projections occurring on these threads and posters seeming to want to tell the woman that shagged THEIR husband what they think of them when the OW in threads weren't the one that caused them pain.

[SoConfused15]

Actually,this also applies to married women who have been unfaithful.

I have just reported two posts for calling someone a cunt. It is disgusting.The writers clearly get a sadistic kick out of telling the poster that they are a bad selfish person who has ruined theIr partner and children's lives. They also offer dubious advice that the husband and children would be better off if he and the OP divorced, as if making a snap decision to break up a family and 18 year marriage could ever be a good idea.

[SilverBirchWithout]

The reality of life is that people are sometimes unfaithful. A lot of people make mistakes and make bad decisions that impact other people.

I find the vicious way many posters respond to someone genuinely seeking support and advice pretty distasteful.

I do understand that when you have been the injured party it must be hard not to project, however there often seems to be a terrible ganglike bullying going on under the excuse of shocked morality. Posters articulate what they would like to say to the OW in their own lives in a truly horrendous way.

[LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726]

Hello Yvaine, I was on that thread with you and I agree entirely about the vile and spiteful comments. They're not helpful and serve no purpose other than letting somebody vent their bile to someone anonymous, in need of support.

It's not about telling somebody that they can't post on a thread - and I don't think you were doing that anyway - but the boards are full of posters telling others to 'do one' if that poster is being disruptive. The posters on OW threads who determinedly harry and goad the OP because of her very existence are the ones who need to leave and, if they post inflammatory and vile name-calling, I report them and I know that others do too.

The subject of OW is taboo. It always has been. It's mostly women in this position who post rather than men and I suspect as this board is mostly populated with women, OM would get an easier time of it anyway as the posting women are less likely to have been affected by an OM than an OW.

I was an OW; it was a long time ago and MN didn't exist then. I would have benefited from the experiences and advice of women but the relationship board that currently exists would have scared me away. There are some very forceful and opinionated posters on that board (as well as others) for whom any opinion other than their own must be discredited in as nasty as way as possible. The OP of any thread is presumably there for support.

Whenever there's an OW thread, the OP is nearly always deemed to be a 'goady troll' and there are pointed references to that peppering the thread. The posters calling 'troll' have no grounds for their beliefs, merely thoughts that the poster isn't genuine. MNHQ really needs to give those posters a reality check by way of a 'STFU' post deletion and warning.

I was also a cheated-on partner and nothing would have induced me to go onto an OW thread because there would be nothing there for me. At the time, I wouldn't have been able to support the OW OP so I never bothered even opening the thread. There are quite a few cheated-on posters who flock to those threads, can't seem to resist them - and sadly use them as catharsis for denigrating the OP in as vile a way as they think they can get away with.

I have enormous sympathy for what women who've been cheated on have gone through but absolutely none for whom name-calling and being awful to a poster wanting support, is expected to be seen as any way acceptable. For goodness sakes, give the threads a swerve, you don't NEED to be on there, you're CHOOSING to. Why put yourselves through the pain? To be reminded that the OP needs support? To have your against-guidelines post deleted? Do yourselves a favour and step away...

Yvaine... thanks for starting this thread, it's LONG overdue.

[YvaineStormhold]

The pack mentality is the most worrying thing to me.

That and the idea that being involved in infidelity is somehow the worst of all possible crimes, putting you beyond the right to decent treatment.

It's medieval and ugly.

[AddToBasket]

I didn't see that thread but I am often shocked by how vile posters are to OW. It's a spleen vent.

The idea that it is goady to post about your relationship (however imperfect) is bizarre. As is the treatment of OW as one dimensional witches, without any nuance.