Tax on fizzy drinks and curb on takeaway outlets to fight obesity: good idea or not?

[HelenMumsnet]

Hello.

Today, doctors are calling on the government to levy an experimental 20% tax on sugary soft drinks and to make local councils limit the number of fast-food outlets outside schools, colleges and leisure centres - to help prevent the UK's obesity crisis becoming "unresolvable".

The Academy of Medical Royal Colleges (which represents nearly every doctor in the UK) says it wants measures like these brought in to break the cycle of "generation after generation falling victim to obesity-related illnesses and death".

One in four adults in England is obese, and predictions are that obesity rates will soon rise to 60% of men, 50% of women and 25% of children.

The British Retail Consortium has countered by saying it's wrong to "demonise" fast-food outlets and it's down to parents to help children "build a healthy and responsible attitude to eating a balanced diet overall".

What do you think?

Do we all need measures like the doctors are suggesting to help us - and our children - stay at a healthy weight?

Or should we be left alone to eat - and feed our children - whatever we choose?

[wintersweet]

Taxing things doesn't work. just look at cigarettes and alcohol, there has been a reduction in smoking but that is due to education and banning smoking in public buildings.

Also I don't want to pay more for the few luxuries I want to enjoy. I have a large family and due to becoming a single parent since having them I have a very small budget, why should my children miss out on treats such as a chippy tea because I don't have a lot of disposable cash? Why should I miss out on fizzy drinks or proper butter? I can't afford to drink or smoke, I don't go out more than a few times a year and I only buy myself new clothes when I don't have any choice.

I'm lucky enough to have been taught to cook by my parents but I have a friend who didn't even know how to microwave beans when she met me, her parents didn't cook so she'd never learnt how to. Giving her a recipe book didn't work as she didn't understand most of the terms in it. Her standard evening meal consisted of "chips from the chippy". She could feed herself, her partner and her three kids for less than £3. Now she can cook, she always wanted to but didn't know how to learn. Didn't know what boiling water looked like, didn't know what a medium hot pan was or how to dice food. She's learnt the different terms and styles and now finds new recipes on the internet and cooks every night. People need someone they can ask without being made to feel stupid.

It would be better to offer free nutrition and cookery classes to expectant (natural and adoptive) parents. It isn't expensive to make home made food from fresh ingredients (assuming you live near enough the right shops) although it is cheaper and quicker to buy take away/processed food. I can feed my family of six for three meals a day for less than £50 per week. The thing is that you need to learn how to use the cheaper cuts of meat, seasonal veg and how to shop economically.

I agree with MimsyBorogroves in that you have to teach people how to cook healthier versions of what they already eat. Presenting people with unfamiliar dishes and saying don't eat that eat this won't work.

The other point to be made is that children under five need full fat dairy products, taxing butter and cream etc is going to make it harder for poorer parents to provide these. Also to many carbohydrates are the reason that most people are overweight in the UK.

And finally made from concentrate fruit juice has the same amount of sugar in as a full fat coke. A 10oz glass of either contains 7 teaspoons of sugar, will the Government be taxing that?

[cuppateaanyone]

Mmmmmh, so fizzy drinks today and then what's next, white bread? Fried chicken? Sweets? Chocolate?...... People know fizzy drinks are bad for you just like booze and cigarettes are but it's about making choices and we (as adults)should be free to make them, we pay quite a bit of tax already.
I totally agree that schools, colleges and lesisure centres should not have vending machines full of drinks, Crisps and sweets or sell Chips etc but they do it to make money!
If we want people to eat more healthily then remove vending machines, plough funds into education, make healthy foods less expensive, maybe make fruit free in schools and stop public bodies serving unhealthy food so they set a good example.

[Snog]

I would like to see one hour of sport every day in schools and proper nutritious food in hospitals.
Our hospital has a Burger King - go figure.
An exclusion zone around schools is sensible.
And more cooking lessons in school and food budgeting too.
Tax on high sugar foods could be spent on research into obesity.
And trans fats need to go

[swallowedAfly]

sorry i keep repeating myself about transfats and fructose glucose syrup - but what is the point of banning soft drinks or chips say when petit filous (marketed to babys and kids as 'healthy') has fructose glucose syrup in it and is made of skimmed milk powder? people really believe this crap is good for their toddlers instead of picking up a natural yoghurt whose only sugar is naturally occurring from milk and has more nutrition in it and no added crap and adding a spoonful of pureed apple?

we need to stop pretending that it's just we eat too many chips or sit around swigging coke all day. the very stuff marketed to us and our kids as healthy is full of crap that contributes to obesity.

first port of call is banning trans fats (we know they're horrendous killers but still allow manufacturers to put them in our food) and fructose glucose. if ten years after that we still have problems you can look to the next culprit but i'm guessing takeaways will be low down the list of actual harmful obesity producing food practices and habits in the food industry.

[swallowedAfly]

petit filous is a bit of a bug bear of mine - i heard bloody health visitors in baby clinics recommending that and dairy lea sodding triangles to mothers who were weaning!?!?! like what???

why would you train your baby/toddler into eating processed, nutrion-less, sugar filled crap right from the start? and why a dairy lea triangle rather than a bit of regular cheese?

coke and takeaways are the least of our problems. they are foods we can see and know are not good for us so can choose to moderate. it's the stock foods that people are consuming that are full of this crap without most people realising that need to be addressed.

it's like dealing with tightening your purse strings by saying well i won't buy that ice cream i have once a month on the beach whilst still sticking brand name ketchup and m&s finest in your trolly every week.

[Salbertina]

Hear, hear, Swallowed! Kids far better off with natural, full fat food and ideally water/milk to drink with v occasional juice.

[Salbertina]

Hey, cuppa, nothing wrong with fried chicken..or even (decent) chocolate ad a treat. Sweets/white bread complete junk tho, zero nutritional value, not "food" at all.

[PolkadotCircus]

It isn't just poor uneducated people who are overweight.There was a report recently that showed that middle class parents in Leeds had more overweight kids than poorer parents.

We all need help repackaged food which most of us buy from time to time.

Something really needs to be done however inconvenient to us as individuals.Many of these proposals could go someway to help.None would work on their own and there would still be work to be done but it would be a start- a very good one.

Totally agree with the trans fat and high fructose syrup posters.Wasn't so long ago I had a roastingfor criticising high fructose syrup as several posters thought it was just a fruit derivative.We are all often duped by food manufacturers-even highly educated MNers!

[swallowedAfly]

it's so easy as well - i used to lightly boil the apple to mush use the strained water/juice to add to water for flavour and faux juice, add the apple to natural yoghurt. takes minutes and costs next to nothing.

now if parents knew the crap that was in the most basic things they were encouraged to give to kids and facilitated to do simple things like this then that goes forward into an interest in what's in food and what to feed their kids and maybe into what is in their own food.

putting extra money on coke and making it harder to get a takeaway is just punitive stupidity that brings out the rebellion in people - it's natural human nature.

[exoticfruits]

Sounds a great idea to me. It isn't a nanny state because people are free to choose them, they just pay more- why not?
I don't think it workable to not have fast food outlets near schools but you can stop pupils leaving the school at lunchtimes.

[gazzalw]

I don't feel comfortable about this at all and I'm saying that as someone whose family doesn't do sugary drinks (except a glass of lemonade as as treat when we are out for a meal) and don't have them in the house.

It's not just the fizzy drinks that are making people/children fat, is it? It's a combination of things, including lifestyle. And you are right that drinks full of artificial sweeteners are probably worse for people than those containing 'natural' sugars.

Also, teenagers have always eaten rubbish. They are also growing so need the extra calories. I don't think that the fast food outlets outside schools are the problem per se either. It's much more complicated than that! Of course those in power who spent their school years at Eton (and the like) won't have been "down the chippie" in their lunchbreak but if it's not chips, it's sweets or crisps. Find me a teenager who doesn't eat 'ket'. If you find an overweight teenager chances are that they will have been overweight since childhood (suggesting other factors to be at work too) rather than just because of chips, sweets and crisps.

And note it is very often the unhealthy food/drink options that are on special offers in the supermarkets...funny that! Perhaps the supermarkets have a duty of care to ensure that only 'wholesome' healthy foods are used in special offer promotions.

[sieglinde]

Lots of issues being confused here.

1. The tax on fizzy drinks won't in itself cure obesity - whoever thought it would? But it might be one minor factor in ameliorating it.
   

1. Fizzy drinks are a luxury, and should be taxed as one. This in itself should deter people from making them a fixture of their lives.
   

1. The smoking tax HAS had an impact - far far fewer people smoke now than was the case thirty years ago.

[PolkadotCircus]

Sooooooo you do nothing?

It is but one thing in a pretty comprehensive list that starts to tackle the problem.None would work on their own and all wouldn't solve it.More will need to be done too.

There is no quick fix possible but a whole host of solutions that will take time to have an impact.

We sooo need to get started on something instead of everybody pontificating,sticking their heads in the sand and doing nothing.

[RabidCarrot]

Why should people who occasionally buy fizzy drink be penalised because some people are gluttons?

[PolkadotCircus]

Because nobody needs them and they are very bad for health even just a couple of times a week.They can effect metabolism,make you want more and give you a very sweet tooth.They are just liquid sugar nobody should be drinking them.

[Tee2072]

But have peo

[Tee2072]

Sorry...

But have people stopped smoking because of the tax or because of the tax, the health factors and the fact that you freeze you ass off 9 months of the year smoking outside in the UK?

[gazzalw]

Maybe we should all have 'smartcards' for food and when we've reached out maximum recommended intake of something we are not eligible to buy any more of it.....??? Big Brother gone mad but it's one solution..... it might help to cut down on alcohol consumption too....

I think that what the Govt has got to do is sit down with other interested parties and look back to see just when/why this obesity problem hit British shores. As I've said before when we were children it was very unusual to get more than one fat child in a school and obesity was rare. What has changed (portion size for one) and why?

[sieglinde]

tee, I'd say the tax has a role in the smoking revolution. Again, no ONE thing has done it, but the factors you cite have worked TOGETHER to save lives. (My mother died of lung cancer..)

Same with obesity. It doesn't have a SINGLE cause, but many caused in combination - increasing sugar levels in everything, transfats, reduced exercise levels, sodas and lattes, snacking and snack foods, increased portions. All play a part. So we need to chip away at it. Taxes are one way, though only one.

[Rosieeo]

Hmmm, I'm vastly overweight and only ever drink diet drinks. Maybe Diet Coke should be banned. And lettuce. I eat a lot of lettuce too...

[gazzalw]

Perhaps, Rosieeo, you should consider trying the non-diet versions for a month and see if it makes any difference? Isn't there supposed to be something about using artificial sweeteners in drinks which tricks your body into continuing to feel hunger? So you drink a calorie-free drink to save on calories but then feel hungry so eat twice as much? .

[PolkadotCircus]

Perhaps Rosie you eat too much,consume too much fat and sugar and get too little exercise alongside eating lettuce and drinking diet drinks.

[gazzalw]

A bit harsh, PolkadotCircus!

[MoreBeta]

I agree with the idea of imposing 20% VAT on all processed and take away food but it should be zero rated (ie VAT free) for all unpackaged raw fresh food. I would then remove all VAT on domestic home heating fuel, domestic natural gas and domestic electricity supplies.

That way, people on low incomes would not be worse off and could actually be better off if they bought fresh foods to cook at home.

Tax can be 'good' if we tax the things that are bad for people. I do not agree that tax should be some sort of punishment on 'fat people' or imposed in such a way that it disroportionately hits the poorest peple in society or impose tax on essential goods like food, heat and shelter.

[fedupwithdeployment]

We very rarely drink fizzy drinks - me probably about once a month, the children, probably once a week / fortnight once holidays are factored in. If it was taxed, it would cost me a bit more, but not much because we don't drink that much.

For those that do drink lots, maybe the tax might be something they take account of? Clearly the Doctors think so, but it would be good to see a bit of research on the matter.

A friend of mine is a dentist who works in deprived areas. She has seen some appalling teeth, the result of excessive fizzy drinks (that is all that some people drink....suggesting that water might be suitable was apparently greeted with shock and disbelief) and poor diet. I do think that education is at the root of the problem, but there is a hell of a way to go. Having done some voluntary work (cooking lessons) in a Sure Start centre, it was eyeopening for me - as detailed in one of the posts above. Some people have NO IDEA where to start. Bring back Home Ecomonics.