GCSE Options - impact on Oxbridge application

[NL3]

DS1 is in Yr9 of a state comp. Quite bright - but also quite lazy.

We have to choose his GCSE options soon and I have a couple of questions that I hope someboby can answer.

Do your options at GCSE have any impact on your chances of gaining admission to Oxford or Cambridge?

Are any courses perceived as "soft" options similar to the list at A-level that top universities won't count?

Is it ok to choose solely academic subjects?

Any advice on this specific list -

English Language and Literature
Maths
Triple Science
French
Mandarin
History
Geography
RE
Citizenship
Economics

Thanks in advance for any help
m

[snorkie]

DD is thinking of the following options:
English Lang
English Lit
Maths
Sciences (3 separate)
Geography or Business Studies
RE
Art
Japanese (as a twilight subject)

She may also have to do French, but is hoping to wriggle out of it as she's not that great at languages, but really wants to do Japanese (she will do both if she's not allowed to drop French).

She's quite bright, but dyslexic. Doubt she'll be trying for Oxbridge, but I obviously want her to keep as many options open as possible. I'm trying to gently suggest that Geography would be a better choice than BS, am I right?

Lilymaid, people were saying economics was OK at A level but soft at GCSE (I think RE is supposed to be like that too). All I know about economics GCSE is that very few schools offer it.

[seeker]

Dd's school seem to regard Expressive Arts and Art as the most rigorous of the "Kids from Fame/touchy-feely" options.

[weegiemum]

Snorkie, I am talking as a Geog teacher here, but I would say Geog was a much better option than BS for A-level, unless she is especially interested in going into something businessy at Uni. Geog is a good wide ranging subject for both arts and sciences and (IIRC, its a long time since I looked at the English curriculum as am in Scotland) has a healthy dose of statistics etc which also come in handy later.

Plus - if she is dyslexic then the more graphic nature of Geog can be useful - certainly at amy last school (not currently teaching!) we encouraged dyslexic pupils into Geog (rather than History, for example) as they often found it more manageable - could draw a diagram rather than write a paragraph, IYSWIM. In fact, the department had a theory that the dyslexic pupils were actually better at this side of the subject than those who were more long winded with their written answers!

[ShrinkingViolet]

generally anything with "studies" in its title is regarded as a less academic subject (exception being Religious Studies at A level I believe).

[snorkie]

I'm not too worried if BS is a bit soft. Most of her other subjects aren't, so that should be OK especially if she gets a higher grade in it as a result. But that's interesting what you say about Geog being recommended for dyslexics weegie I'll definately pass that message on (it's GCSE we're talking about here not A level, but I assume the same applies).

[TheArsenicCupCake]

Snorkie.. DS1 ( and 2) are both dyslexic.. DS1 has just seen this as something to be tackled and overcome.. where as ds2 is highly effected by it ( their dad and I are both dyslexic.. and both of us have degrees, careers ( he's a teacher) but I see no reason not to try for oxbridge if that is what your DD would like to do.. ). So I guess it depends on how her dyslexia effects her.

HTH

[fritzzwicky]

Thanks for that reassurance re Economics at As/A level, Lilymaid. Sorry if I hijacked slightly off the GCSE focus!

[Piffle]

snorkle why is the thinking of Japanese if languages are not liked?
I was a very gifted linguist, French, Latin, Spanish, Russian, some Arabic but Japanese was soooo very hard!

The FSMQ as ds1 is doing it is basically read the textbook and sit the exam! It is hard, very hard!
It is not taught per se.
The 4 top kids at maths were given it, ds1 was left out as he has a very hefty GCSE course load compared to others
( doing Art and Mandarin) but he asked and they included him.

[MIFLAW]

Went to Oxford in 1992 and did the entrance exam for Modern Languages.

My impression then was GCSEs didn't really count for much either way, as long as you had the requisite passes for matriculation (maths, English, a science and a foreign lang at A-C, I believe, but do check - 14 years is a long time).

To a lesser extent, your choice of A levels only mattered insofar as there were 3 "proper" subjects, potential for high grades, you were shit hot on the subject(s) you were actually going to study and you had a good interview.

I'm sure now that a Fellow will tell me that's all wrong and I got in because someone liked my tie ...

[MIFLAW]

They always said, too, that having three A levles that were a good "fit" with each other (eg not woodwork, pony trekking and Ancient Greek) made you a better candidate, but then school teachers say a lot of things.

[snorkie]

Piffle, the Japanese is something she wants to do (not sure exactly why, but she does tend to be drawn to different and rather non-conformist subjects). She signed herself up to the classes nearly a term late and has worked really hard to catch up with the others - I've not seen her so fired up about anything for a while. I actually think it may be more suited to her than French as it seems to be a very phonetic, rule-based language whereas French is very irregular. The Japanese seems to be well taught and she has a good raport with the teacher also.

The maths sounds good - wish my ds had the opportunity to do it, he is spending this year treading water in maths again (but looking forward to starting A level maths + f. maths next year).

[senua]

MIFLAW: you are out of date on Languages. Since a Language is no longer compulsory at KS4, a lot of schools have dropped Language GCSEs. The ones who have kept Languages tend to be Grammar, independent or leafy suburb. Oxbridge has therefore been bounced into having to drop the requirement, lest they appear elitist.

[MIFLAW]

There you go, I stand corrected.

I would still be surprised if Oxbridge cared overly much about GCSE options, though, unless every single one was in pony trekking, tagging and retail studies.

[bruffin]

"he looks for students who look at the world with a different perspective"

That's what DS's teachers say about him and why his science teacher feels he would be a good candidate.

[arionater]

NL3 - the list looks fine. I work at one half of "Oxbridge" at the moment and was at the other one until recently; I've interviewed at both and I can't remember ever querying a GCSE subject choice in itself, and certainly not for someone doing a good range with plenty of strong academic choices in there. We are aware that how many GCSEs people take, and how "academic" the options are is often determined by the school, so we try not to judge by it if to do so would be unfair.

What does matter is the grades he gets in them: almost all candidates have all As/As at GCSE and either have or are predicted all As at A-levels. That doesn't mean you can't get in with the odd GCSE B or C in a less relevant subject - that's what interviews and so on are for - but it is noted. (And again, placed in the context of a school - an Etonian with a single B and only a few As is, obviously, a much dodgier candidate than someone with less good grades from a much less good school.)

In short: 'soft' subjects can work against you at A-level, where you only have a few to choose, but I really wouldn't worry about it at GCSE. It matters more that he enjoys it and that his interest in his subjects leads to him reading around, thinking about how subjects connect, etc.

[gramercy]

But to get to the nitty gritty, would, say, 6 As and 2Bs in traditional 'difficult' subjects trump 8 As including subjects such as Computing, Dance and Citizenship?

I have the fear that all the admissions department sees is the 8As.

(I know now people do up to 13 GCSEs - in my day there was a limit of 8 O Levels.)

[loungelizard]

I would imagine the traditional subjects would definately trump the 'soft' subjects.

I don't think the admissions dept just see the 8 As or whatever, but, as said before, they do take into account the schools attended, ie some schools may not offer enough traditional subjects for a pupil to get 8 A/A*s in them.

My DCs' school is very successful in getting pupils to Oxbridge and as far as I can see the Oxbridge colleges are scrupulously fair in their admissions procedures.

[snorkie]

senua and MIFLAW. On modern languages it is true that Oxford & Cambridge recently dropped the GCSE modern language requirement, however it does seem that that requirement is beginning to creep back in at some places. For example UCL states that:

"For 2012 entry, UCL will require a GCSE Modern Language at grade C or above for all of its programmes. For the minority of students that will not have had an opportunity to study a GCSE Modern Language, UCL will provide opportunities to meet the language requirement once enrolled at UCL."