To think teachers' kids have all the advantages

[thepogues]

Bit tongue-in-cheek but a significant grain of truth.

Wherever my kids have been in classes (whether at primary or secondary), the kids of teachers always seem to do unusually well. Of course, some kids will be naturally super bright but statistically you'd assume their IQ/potential to be spread (bell curve and all that) plus, anecdotally (though I've known lots) most, anecdotally, do not appear more sparky or intelligent than their peers. But perhaps they work harder as they all seem to excel, particularly in terms of home work tasks but also when it comes to certain exams.

What is the reason for this? Is it because the teacher parents (or grandparents/relatives, for that matter), know how to teach or is it because they are able to find out about upcoming tests/similar tests or because they know the ins and outs of what is required to achieve certain grades (in line with the curriculum). Or both?

Would love to hear your views/comments.

[clary]

@thepogues

True but most of the parents I know are all educated, including many with post-docs. In fact, many more 'educated' than some of the teachers I know. And they all value education, reading etc etc. I think knowing what is expected for grades and being able to help in primary is key; especially as there is so much that rides on how the kids do in primary for their confidence/setting and future school choices.

But @thepogues many teachers are not primary teachers so this is not a thing for them. I know about PEE and its various variants, but because my DC have talked about it, rather than because I am a teacher. It's not something that is used in MFL.

I honestly don't think it is beyond the wit of an educated adult to read an exam mark scheme and the examiners' report and work out what is needed. They are hardly written in technical language. I did this when DS1 was struggling with English language as, despite being a teacher, I didn;t know all about the GCSE english exam. Anyone else could have done the same.

[diamondpony80]

I’m an ex teacher. DS was exceptionally bright and always excelled in everything he did. For that reason I was often told it must be because I was teaching him at home. Not the case at all. I never once did extra work with him! He didn’t need or want it.

DD is different. Although she’s above average in literacy, she really struggles with numeracy. I will be doing some extra work with her over the summer in Maths. Even if I wasn’t qualified as a teacher I would do this. Her teacher has recommended it and I know she needs it. I don’t expect that she will end up doing exceptionally well, but for her sake I would like her to be able to keep up with her class.

[RosesAndHellebores]

I can't think of a single mother except me who didn't go to university. DS went to Oxford; DD to Cambridge. DS has just submitted his PhD. MIL was a teacher but only one of her DC went to Oxford.

My DC both started school reading. You don't have to be a teacher or university graduate to read to your children, teach them phonics, colours, flower names, trees, to recognise birdsong, listen to music, go to museums, build sandcastles, hunt for pebbles, have bear hunts and play sardines.

I do expect a teacher to prepare all children for exams in accordance with the curriculum. We paid.for our children to be well educated as well as well qualified.

[butwait]

Another one who thinks that it's more to do with the type of people who become teachers than any specific advantage from being the child of a teacher. My kids are the children of a teacher (DH not me) and they are both doing extremely well academically. But DH and I are both masters-educated bookish types, so it's not really all that surprising that they have a greater than average chance of doing well. I suspect people probably look at them and assume that DH's job has made a big difference, but actually I'm the one who played a much bigger role in their early education. I was the SAHM who spent endless hours reading to them, doing jigsaws, playing board games, going to the library, doing puzzles etc - not because I was trying to make them clever, but just because that's what came naturally to me - it's what I enjoyed. They've grown up in a house full of books, with parents whose idea of a fun Saturday night is playing Scrabble or doing the crossword. They've grown up with the unspoken assumption that school is fun, that teachers are nice people, that education is not only valuable but also enjoyable - and all that has come from me just as much as DH. I'm not saying that his job hasn't had any advantages - but they mainly came later on, once the kids hit 11+ stage and started doing more serious work at home. At that point, his teaching experience was useful. But up until then, it really made very little difference - he knew bugger all about the primary school curriculum, and any homework help was just as likely to be done by me, as him.

[SleepingStandingUp]

@ThirtyThreeTrees

As a daughter of a teacher, your post sickens me.

I'm academically bright but ever time I did well in school,I was told by other children that I must have been told the answers before the test etc.

In my case, my parent was so focused on fairness that I often had it tougher, wasn't give the extra help or support that other kids got. Never give the best role in a play,never captain of the sports team etc. even though I should have been on merit on many occasions.

To see this attitude from children is understandable as they know no better. To see it from an ill informed adult is grating.

Just out of interest, what to do you? What favours does it do your children? What advantages do they have as a result? Or does it have any impact at all?

Presumably from that you were at your parents school? Which is different to the general I didn’t consciously decide to ‘teach them’ anything before they started school- it was just how I’d been trained to interact with children. They could read and write before they started school. kind o advantage that most people are talking about. In your case your parents didn't do fair by you in their attempt to be equal.

[SleepingStandingUp]

@manysummersago

I remember - you have twin toddlers? I salute you.

Yes I do, so I look at them at 2.5 and think what's a reasonable age to do the ECT - they'll go full time just before they turn 5 (one of oldest in their class) so that would be September 2024. I've got 3 years left of OU degree though so 2025. I'll be 44. Is that too late I wonder

[Haudyourwheesht]

@RosesAndHellebores

I can't think of a single mother except me who didn't go to university. DS went to Oxford; DD to Cambridge. DS has just submitted his PhD. MIL was a teacher but only one of her DC went to Oxford.

My DC both started school reading. You don't have to be a teacher or university graduate to read to your children, teach them phonics, colours, flower names, trees, to recognise birdsong, listen to music, go to museums, build sandcastles, hunt for pebbles, have bear hunts and play sardines.

I do expect a teacher to prepare all children for exams in accordance with the curriculum. We paid.for our children to be well educated as well as well qualified.

So you paid for private education? How did you do that, if you didn't go to university? I'd assume you value education if your children went to such prestigious universities? Did anyone in their lives attend university? Do you work long hours?

[butwait]

@Haudyourwheesht i don't know about @RosesAndHellebores but it's not always as linear as that. I went to Oxbridge as a first generation university entrant. Nobody on either side of the close family had been to university before, but both my parents were bright and they massively valued education, for its own sake as well as for the opportunities it might provide. As for wealth, looking at the people I know, I don't think that necessarily follows education. You've got academic types like me, who don't necessarily want to follow high earning careers, and you've got go-getting types who earn loads through grit and entrepreneurship, in spite of mediocre exam results. Of course there's a broad correlation, but it's not a hard rule that the better educated you are, the more you'll earn. And sorry if it's unpalatable, but a lot of the wealthiest women I know got there through marriage, not work.

[RosesAndHellebores]

@Haudyourwheesht how did I do that if I didn't go to university? Because in my 20s I worked in the City from 1981 and did very well. At 25 I owned my own house in SW London and by the time I met DH had hardly any mortgage. It was my success that allowed me 7 years at home with the children and in my early 40s I took professional qualifications and have been a director of a quasi public sector organisation since.

University isn't a pre-requisite for success you know and wasn't essential in the 70s. I was as well educated at 21 as most people who did have a degree.

@butwait I don't think I was saying it was linear, far from it but what I'd like to know is what all these children of school teachers are doing in 20 years. MiL had a 1 in 3 success rate, neither of DH's sibling went to Oxbridge and neither are successful - far from it despite going to Russell Group Universities.

Marrying DH helped of course

[butwait]

@RosesAndHellebores my 'not linear' was aimed at @Haudyourwheesht not you. You sound like a perfect example of the fact that 'success' isn't linear. In my case, I wouldn't be at all surprised if at least one of my children ended up teaching. I would count that as a 'success' if it's what they want to do and makes them happy. Other people would look at income level and say that teaching would not be a 'successful' outcome given the child's current academic success. So much depends on definitions.

[motogirl]

I've not noticed teachers kids being any brighter than mine, it's more likely they are being brought up in an environment where education is valued and prioritised. My ex is a lecturer rather than school and my kids got dragged out to museums, castles and historical places rather than a beach holiday, because that's what he liked to do too. They call it cultural capital, and it's definitely something that puts kids at an advantage, I didn't know about it years ago, it was just the life we lived, more recently I've read the research and it explains a lot

[Dahlietta]

I am a teacher and have taught loads of teachers' kids in my time. I just don't think that this is a thing!

[hullabaloo22]

@butwait

@RosesAndHellebores my 'not linear' was aimed at @Haudyourwheesht not you. You sound like a perfect example of the fact that 'success' isn't linear. In my case, I wouldn't be at all surprised if at least one of my children ended up teaching. I would count that as a 'success' if it's what they want to do and makes them happy. Other people would look at income level and say that teaching would not be a 'successful' outcome given the child's current academic success. So much depends on definitions.

Interesting, agree I don't think they're brighter at all but they seem to - all other things being equal (my DC go to a school where all parents are involved e.g. reading, museums, playing educational games etc etc) they seem to do better academically.

[DuesToTheDirt]

it's more likely they are being brought up in an environment where education is valued and prioritised.

Hell yes. My parents were both teachers and when I read threads here of people wanting to take holidays in term time, or take a sunny day off school to go to the beach, or just give them a duvet day.... . OK so my parents couldn't have taken me anywhere on a school day as they were at work, but I could have stayed off school sick etc. (there was another family member at home). I didn't though. I don't remember ever staying home sick - I'd have had to be nearly dead first.

[hullabaloo22]

@DuesToTheDirt

it's more likely they are being brought up in an environment where education is valued and prioritised.

Hell yes. My parents were both teachers and when I read threads here of people wanting to take holidays in term time, or take a sunny day off school to go to the beach, or just give them a duvet day.... . OK so my parents couldn't have taken me anywhere on a school day as they were at work, but I could have stayed off school sick etc. (there was another family member at home). I didn't though. I don't remember ever staying home sick - I'd have had to be nearly dead first.

My parents were not teachers and I don't remember being home unless I had an extremely high fever (which I never seemed to have). ;)
I think education is valued and kids encouraged to behave and be respectful to teachers in many homes...

[DuesToTheDirt]

@hullabaloo22

My parents were not teachers and I don't remember being home unless I had an extremely high fever (which I never seemed to have). ;)
I think education is valued and kids encouraged to behave and be respectful to teachers in many homes...

Of course. Homes where education is prioritised include both teacher-parents and non-teacher-parents.

But do any homes where education is not prioritised include any teacher-parents? I don't imagine they do.

[KarmaComma]

@Hoppinggreen

They also have parents who work very long hours for less pay that other people who work similar hours.
They also have parents that probably cant attend any school events during school hours and may not be able to do regular drop offs and pick ups.
So its not all good

This. There's a reason I'm an ex teacher. I couldn't attend any sports day, or special assembly, or nativity, or volunteer as a parent helper on trips/in class. I could never take my child to school or pick him up. The evenings I would be waiting for my kids to go to sleep so I could start working again. I felt like a rubbish mum during term time.

I couldn't take the guilt anymore and quit.

[boopdeflouff]

I hear you @KarmaComma. I long for a two day weekend, they rarely happen, or an evening off. Am often working past midnight.

But I am lucky as 3/4 of my kids are in my school, and have, at one point, all been in my class. Have never experienced anything that the non teaching posters have projected on this thread, and logistically it makes everything a lot easier.

Thankfully I also have a very understanding head who knows how important it is for me to be there for my other child (SN) and so for the annual events where there might be a timetable clash, she covers me without any question. But, she is a diamond, I appreciate her and work extra hard as a result.

I feel incredibly grateful that I am in a very lucky position as I love my school, my job and the school community, and my children are all thriving and doing well
enough. It hasn't always been like that, (awful work culture in my last school and DD being horrifically bullied in her last school) and I have no doubt that if I hadn't changed schools five years ago, I would have ended up with a similar outcome to yours and probably homeschooling.

Teacher bashing on mumsnet is vile at times.

[Sweetleftfood]

My husbands parents were both teachers and my husband went to the school where his mum taught, he always says that she was a lot harder on him than on other kids.

But then my oldest DS had the head teachers kid in his class all through primary, small school and she got picked for absolutely everything and got away with everything, it was laughable at times, so I guess it's swings and roundabouts, I would not want to have my kid in the same school I taught at

[WombatChocolate]

I’ve heard people ask a similar Q to the one Op asked before.

In this case, it was someone who didn’t really know many professional people or children of them, simply due to where they lived. The child of the teacher (who was in the same school as parent but not same class) was having a standard middle class upbringing with values of reading,working hard, lots of extra-curricular etc. The child was pretty bright, but nothing really unusual. Because the parent asking the Q wasn’t familiar with this approach to bringing up kids and school, they assumed it was because the parent was a teacher, rather than it was normal middle class, professional kind of parenting.

So I agree with a few earlier posters that what OP is noticing is standard middle class or professional parenting. Yes, teacher parents do usually understand how school systems work and know areas to focus on and are able to give their kids some focused input at different points depending on the level they teach at, but it’s also the case that most professionals in other jobs will be able to do that to a good level too…and importantly see it as important.

It’s telling that OP thinks maybe the teacher parents cheat and tell their kids about tests etc. It doesn’t seem to occur to them that perhaps the kids are bright (they seem to think not) or more likely simply that the family approach to life and education is making a real difference.

This is the thing isn’t it - values and approach to school differ. Some parents know they need to read with their kids as regularly as clockwork, naturally fill their houses with books and words and automatically are enriching their kids all the time with wider experiences. They do it even when they have busy jobs. It’s part of the culture of home. Other families just aren’t interested in this stuff and it doesn’t seem important to them and they can’t see a connection between it and outcomes at school. Sometimes they might see some kids doing better and wonder why it is…and conclude there might be cheating or bribery or it’s all diwn to money in some form…and probably actually in an indirect way it is down to money and your own upbringing which shapes how you value education and raise your own kids. Sorry, realise it’s a generalisation, but on a macro level it’s broadly true, if unpopular.

[Pullandpush]

The teachers I know are very competive parents... Dc both have teachers kids in the class (the teachers don't teach in the school their kids attend). Both my dc are tops sets, usually get full marks & are extremely confident. My eldest gets picked for all the lead roles, shows guests around the school etc. DH & I do loads of reading, board games etc with dc. Ensured they were very well socialised from birth.
I never attended uni & am a sahm, DH is brickie.. It seems to irk the teacher parents in dc class that our dc are thriving & so capable & I have had some snide comments.. Dd2 went for tea to one of the teachers kids class & the mum asked her outright if her mummy sets her extra work on top of her schoolwork (I do but that's because they want it!)

[turquoise1988]

@Pullandpush Seeing as you've just felt the need to post about how 'able' your children are and about how you provide them with extra work at home, I'm struggling to see how your attitude is much different?

[Pullandpush]

@turquoise1988

@Pullandpush Seeing as you've just felt the need to post about how 'able' your children are and about how you provide them with extra work at home, I'm struggling to see how your attitude is much different?

It's my job as a parent to educate my children, this is not the sole responsibility of the school. I can find out exactly what they need on the internet & extend them myself (they love learning & thoroughly enjoy school work) ... Their teachers have always commended them on their confidence & their eloquence which is why they get chosen to represent their class & school so often.
My point is it's not just teachers who can offer their kids the same educational experiences. In my experience though teachers do expect their own dc to be the "chosen ones".
Just offering a different perspective... Any child with determined & ambitious parents will be at an advantage.

[thecatsatonthematagain]

I was the child of a teacher but honestly I never saw my dad! He marked books every evening and weekend and was generally stressed, grumpy and absent as a parent.

However, I did grow up in an environment where education was valued. My mum didn't work due to ill health but clearly saw how much my dad was putting into his job and cared for his students, so I towed the line and tried hard to please them both. My dad never sat with me to do homework or took me to museums, played scrabble etc, or asked what I was studying. My mum was often ill so didn't either. I couldn't join any sports teams or do after school clubs as my mum didn't drive and I was dependent on the school bus (we lived 50 mins bus ride away from the school my parents chose for me).

I've painted a bleak picture but I was very advantaged compared to many friends (this was 1990s) whose parents didn't/couldn't work, and we knew how important school was.

[turquoise1988]

@Pullandpush Of course parents who are not teachers can offer their children a great deal of support and encouragement at home, I know of plenty! That goes without saying.

It just felt like your post was laced with the attitude that teachers who are also parents and encourage and support their children are not allowed to talk about it...but because you are not a teacher, you ARE allowed to talk about it.

For what it's worth, I am a teacher and a parent. Aside from sharing my children's achievements and struggles with family and friends, no one would have any idea how they fare at school, because frankly, no one else needs to know (or even cares!)