To think teachers' kids have all the advantages

[thepogues]

Bit tongue-in-cheek but a significant grain of truth.

Wherever my kids have been in classes (whether at primary or secondary), the kids of teachers always seem to do unusually well. Of course, some kids will be naturally super bright but statistically you'd assume their IQ/potential to be spread (bell curve and all that) plus, anecdotally (though I've known lots) most, anecdotally, do not appear more sparky or intelligent than their peers. But perhaps they work harder as they all seem to excel, particularly in terms of home work tasks but also when it comes to certain exams.

What is the reason for this? Is it because the teacher parents (or grandparents/relatives, for that matter), know how to teach or is it because they are able to find out about upcoming tests/similar tests or because they know the ins and outs of what is required to achieve certain grades (in line with the curriculum). Or both?

Would love to hear your views/comments.

[WombatChocolate]

Is the issue that OP is finding difficult is both knowing some adults as fellow-parents and also as professionals - ie as teachers in the school their kids go to?

I think this happens when people don’t know many professionals in their day-to-day life socially. If they knew and chatted socially with Doctors and Social workers and bankers and lawyers….perhaps they would be shocked at the conversation and think it is unprofessional. Somehow those professionals are ‘other’ and I get that for some people their social circle just doesn’t include many/any, so then dealing with them socially or as both social equals and as professionals you encounter in their professional capacity as the same time can be tricky. Teachers in deprived areas often find that parents relate to differently than they do in middle class areas, where most parents are professionals and see the teacher as equals and with particular expertise which is availability to tap into as needed, but who also count many teachers in their social circle.

I don’t think you’d find most professional parents thinking the teacher has somehow gained a big unfair advantage for their child or is cheating. The only ones who might tend isn’t his direction are the heavily over-invested parents who see everything as a competition and feel like their child is at war with all other kids as they as parents are at war with other parents (secretly of course) to win an arms race of tutoring, or getting to the top reading book first. Those kind of people are often just on the lookout for any tips the teacher parent might have as a teacher that they can utilise themselves, rather than a sense there is unfair cheating going on.

Or are you worried when you see the dentist and their children, that their kid is getting better dental care than your kids? Or that the swimming teacher has given an unfair advantage to their kids by spending time in the water with their children since babies? When the swimming teacher’s kid ends up in the swimming team, are you really surprised and determined to believe that’s favouritism, or is there just a chance that actually for a variety of reasons, they are likely to be excellent swimmers.

[WombatChocolate]

Those kind of tests - SATs type tests cover skills and ability to apply knowledge. Anyone who is interested can see past papers online and get their kid to practice if they want them to. There are lots of helicopter parents who do this and the vast majority aren’t teachers. Yes, teachers will know which paper will be used with a class for an end of term of start of year test. To be honest though, things like whichnpaper will be used for these little internal tests is often chosen just a few days before. They might well do a bit of work with their own kids in the skills and question styles (which anyone who looks at past papers can see) but the idea they give their kids the actual paper and questions to practice, seems to be looking for consipiracy theories. Remmeber teachers are actually often so busy after school that the ides they find time to do this is quite daft. Additionally, they know more than anyone that being prepped with actual questions doesn’t do anyone any favours and that kids need to show what they can actually do.

I love the idea that OP feels she can judge the exact ability of all the kids in the class and therefore knows the teacher children are performing ahead of their ability in tests, which therefore equals teachers showing their kids the papers in advance. Hmm.

If you look at kids and their attainment nationally, you’ll see that on a macro, broad basis, key indicators that someone will be a high attained at school include their background/social class and maternal education. Teacher children, like those of other professionals have those markers and so are on average more likely to be high attainers. It’s as simple as that. There’s a correlation.

And for every teacher child that is doing well in class, Ive also known those who struggle, who have SEN and those who everyone thinks should be Head Girl or have lead in the play, just because of their personality or skills, but doesn’t get the role, because there’s a strong sense that there can’t be a hint if favouritism towards staff children, so often the reverse happens.

Focus instead on getting your kid to the library weekly, reading with them all the time, talking constantly about everything, going out and looking at the world and getting them doing lots of clubs and activities, as well as supporting school and doing all the enrichment or extra work they offer. That’s the kind of thing that will make your child do better, rather than a focused attempt to keep teacher children down.

People who start suggesting teachers cheat and favour their own kids, as an explanation for why their own kid isn’t Head Girl or in the top groups, are just focusing in the wrong thing. They’re probably also the people who like to criticise nurses, Doctors, social workers and anyone else who they think has got an advantage over them and is somehow keeping them down.

Yes, teacher children do have some advantages. They usually have well educated parents who value education and provide a home environment with reasonable structure and focus on education. They are also at home in the school holidays and can spend time with their kids then and enjoy all kinds of activities which indirectly might be educational, although the idea they are hot-housing their kids is a bit laughable. Yes, they usually know about a particular stage of education and are well-placed to spot if there might be any special needs or gaps in knowledge. They are also likely to be confident about education and willing to contact school and pursue issues if hey arise…..like any confident and middle class parent really. BUT there are downsides too, especially of having parents who work in the same school. As some say, it doesn’t always make kids popular with their peers, sometimes kids are actively not given lead roles in plays to avoid cries if favouritism, and importantly, in term time, teachers work very long hours into the evening sand weekends on school stuff, meaning often their own kids don’t get much input. It’s why the idea that teachers are coaching their kids and giving them tests in advance so they can learn the answers is really so daft.

There will always be those determined to believe someone else is being given an unfair advantage and they and their own are always the ones getting the short straw.

[hullabaloo22]

@butwait

Why is it 'frightening' that a teacher would have access to other children's 11+ results? Of course they'd have access if relevant (eg if they were a Year 5/6 teacher, or had an admin role in processing results). What advantage is that going to give themlir own child? Teachers have access to all sorts of much more sensitive information than that, and they generally would always maintain a professional separation between home and work. As for prior knowledge of tests, there are very strict controls on when test papers can be opened (for the tests that matter, like SATS or 11+). There's no way that teachers would have any prior knowledge of important tests.

It was frightening because she commented on some kids not passing to other people. This was confidential info, surely. I didn't expand enough but that seemed pretty shocking to me.

Education is a journey and there are lots of instances when kids are tested in primary, when it's not a national test at a key stage. As I understand it (from teacher friends), they will often use previous years' test at the end of the year and at the beginning of the next academic year to establish knowledge in the class and setting them, with long term consequences.

Yes, of course there is access to previous papers online, but parents wouldn't know which one would come up (although of course it would be useful to get the practice in regardless).

[RaraRachael]

We have access to all sorts of sensitive information that is relevant to our job - just as medical professionals and social workers would. I've no idea why that would be "frightening".

In my experience, teachers' kids receive no privileges whatsoever.
In fact, I worked with a teacher who was absolutely horrible to the children of her colleagues (mine included)

[butwait]

Why is it 'frightening' that a teacher would have access to other children's 11+ results? Of course they'd have access if relevant (eg if they were a Year 5/6 teacher, or had an admin role in processing results). What advantage is that going to give themlir own child? Teachers have access to all sorts of much more sensitive information than that, and they generally would always maintain a professional separation between home and work. As for prior knowledge of tests, there are very strict controls on when test papers can be opened (for the tests that matter, like SATS or 11+). There's no way that teachers would have any prior knowledge of important tests.

[Mammyloveswine]

I'm a teacher (primary) and both of my children do well with reading (I understand phonics as teach it myself so it's an easy concept for me).

However ds1 has asd and had an awful time at school nursery, his teacher was horrendous always telling me his behaviour was bad. His teacher in reception was lovely but his current teacher is incredible!! She really gets him and he thrives!!

The little one is charm personified and just sails through life...he was born "en caul" on his due date so is destined to just lead a charmed life 😂

I have had little input as I'm usually working a million hours so their dad does more through the week! He is not a teacher!

[hullabaloo22]

@Pullandpush

@turquoise1988 that's great for you however I was giving my perspective based on my own personal experiences of teachers I acquainted with. I feel the ones I know are extremely competitive & feel their dc should be the ones who excel most. Again the spectrum is so broad, I am not tarring all teachers with the one brush just the ones I personally know.

That's great that you've supported your children and that they're doing well. I have to agree that the teachers I know are also very competitive. Not always in an obvious way, mind you.

Where my DC attends school, all parents do the things mentioned on here already but it does seem the teachers' kids (who are bright but not brighter than other kids, sometimes less so) seem to often get prizes, mentions etc (in this case, the teachers are not teaching their own DC but they're at the same school; guess we subconsciously we would tend to give prizes to the off spring of someone we know, kids of colleagues. It's not that surprising. Teachers are not infallible either, this goes across all sectors I should imagine).

I just remembered a boy at DC's school whose mum was working in the office. The girl was bright but not more so than some of the other kids but this DC got the lead role in the school play, head girl - you name it. The mother (who has since left to work at a different school), definitely had access to lots of info including tests, and also the test results of other kids who went through the 11+. Frightening, really.

I can't blame the teachers as I saw first hand how absolutely charming this child could be when adults/teachers were within ear shot but a right sh*te towards the other kids. So many parents complained about her. Nothing happened of course...

I'm all for genuine 'good eggs' getting prizes (with academic achievement prizes based on stats/facts) but there are also many children who are very good at playing the system and in front of adults and teachers. The very best teachers I have come across have a very good radar for this but most don't.

[turquoise1988]

@WombatChocolate, this is an excellent post. I agree with every word.

[turquoise1988]

@Pullandpush I'm sorry you have come across some teachers like that, but, as you rightly say, lots of us are not.

I find it hard to understand why anyone, teacher or not, needs to discuss or justify their children's academic abilities or how much/little they do for their children. Yes, by all means, celebrate achievements with those who matter, such as family and close friends. But anyone else? Near strangers on the Internet? Blunt or not - no one cares.

[WombatChocolate]

Other parents who are professionals, don’t tend to see teachers’ children as being any different to their own, or the attitude to education being different. Quite simply, the majority of middle class, educated professional parents value education and promote an atmosphere of working hard, taking opportunities and engaging. Of course, parents who aren’t professionals can promote these values too and quite often do. And other professionals don’t see teachers as different to them - they are just other educated people who have chosen a particular career path and have expertise in one area, whilst they might have expertise in another area.

As I said before, sometimes non-professionals seem to notice the children of teachers or think something particular is going on in the homes of teachers, rather than recognising that it’s not about the parental particular job but a value system and approach to life.

Some people decide certain children get all the opportunities at school or do well in tests because if things like their parents being teachers, or other things. Thee can be some truth in these observations occasionally, but often it’s simply that these kids are the ones doing well and there’s no favouritism involved.

It’s noticeable that some parents are keen to hunt for ways their kids are disadvantaged or reasons why their kids aren’t doing so well. Some decide the kids of those on the PTA are favoured, or staff children, or any other category. Some can’t accept that sometimes these other kids are just doing well or try hard and focus on looking for factors outside of their own children, rather than their own children’s abilities, efforts or those of them as a family. Always sounds like sour grapes to me and an unwillingness to take responsibility for yourself or your own kids.

The things teachers might do with their kids, which most other professional parents are likely to do too….not as something which has to be a conscious choice, but just comes naturally to them might be things like; going to the library regularly and/or having a house full of books and everyone regularly looks at books, lots and lots of talking, days out looking at things and talking, doing stuff together like baking, making, playing and talking, going to classes and activities, joining Scouts, Brownies, music lessons, competitive sport, visits to zoos, parks, museums, galleries, holidays, and talking and talking all the while. It’s all about the talking and talking and talking with younger kids.

It’s the sense that their own kids are being cheated out if something, or some kids are being favoured that strikes me as the underlying sense of bitterness for some on this thread. Rather than an attitude of ‘what can I do and my kids do to make progress’, instead it’s a sense that someone else is doing something that’s holding them back…an abdication of responsibility and passing blame. But some people do feel the world is against them and teachers are just another group who are out to disadvantage their families.

[Pullandpush]

@turquoise1988 that's great for you however I was giving my perspective based on my own personal experiences of teachers I acquainted with. I feel the ones I know are extremely competitive & feel their dc should be the ones who excel most. Again the spectrum is so broad, I am not tarring all teachers with the one brush just the ones I personally know.

[turquoise1988]

@Pullandpush Of course parents who are not teachers can offer their children a great deal of support and encouragement at home, I know of plenty! That goes without saying.

It just felt like your post was laced with the attitude that teachers who are also parents and encourage and support their children are not allowed to talk about it...but because you are not a teacher, you ARE allowed to talk about it.

For what it's worth, I am a teacher and a parent. Aside from sharing my children's achievements and struggles with family and friends, no one would have any idea how they fare at school, because frankly, no one else needs to know (or even cares!)

[thecatsatonthematagain]

I was the child of a teacher but honestly I never saw my dad! He marked books every evening and weekend and was generally stressed, grumpy and absent as a parent.

However, I did grow up in an environment where education was valued. My mum didn't work due to ill health but clearly saw how much my dad was putting into his job and cared for his students, so I towed the line and tried hard to please them both. My dad never sat with me to do homework or took me to museums, played scrabble etc, or asked what I was studying. My mum was often ill so didn't either. I couldn't join any sports teams or do after school clubs as my mum didn't drive and I was dependent on the school bus (we lived 50 mins bus ride away from the school my parents chose for me).

I've painted a bleak picture but I was very advantaged compared to many friends (this was 1990s) whose parents didn't/couldn't work, and we knew how important school was.

[Pullandpush]

@turquoise1988

@Pullandpush Seeing as you've just felt the need to post about how 'able' your children are and about how you provide them with extra work at home, I'm struggling to see how your attitude is much different?

It's my job as a parent to educate my children, this is not the sole responsibility of the school. I can find out exactly what they need on the internet & extend them myself (they love learning & thoroughly enjoy school work) ... Their teachers have always commended them on their confidence & their eloquence which is why they get chosen to represent their class & school so often.
My point is it's not just teachers who can offer their kids the same educational experiences. In my experience though teachers do expect their own dc to be the "chosen ones".
Just offering a different perspective... Any child with determined & ambitious parents will be at an advantage.

[turquoise1988]

@Pullandpush Seeing as you've just felt the need to post about how 'able' your children are and about how you provide them with extra work at home, I'm struggling to see how your attitude is much different?

[Pullandpush]

The teachers I know are very competive parents... Dc both have teachers kids in the class (the teachers don't teach in the school their kids attend). Both my dc are tops sets, usually get full marks & are extremely confident. My eldest gets picked for all the lead roles, shows guests around the school etc. DH & I do loads of reading, board games etc with dc. Ensured they were very well socialised from birth.
I never attended uni & am a sahm, DH is brickie.. It seems to irk the teacher parents in dc class that our dc are thriving & so capable & I have had some snide comments.. Dd2 went for tea to one of the teachers kids class & the mum asked her outright if her mummy sets her extra work on top of her schoolwork (I do but that's because they want it!)

[WombatChocolate]

I’ve heard people ask a similar Q to the one Op asked before.

In this case, it was someone who didn’t really know many professional people or children of them, simply due to where they lived. The child of the teacher (who was in the same school as parent but not same class) was having a standard middle class upbringing with values of reading,working hard, lots of extra-curricular etc. The child was pretty bright, but nothing really unusual. Because the parent asking the Q wasn’t familiar with this approach to bringing up kids and school, they assumed it was because the parent was a teacher, rather than it was normal middle class, professional kind of parenting.

So I agree with a few earlier posters that what OP is noticing is standard middle class or professional parenting. Yes, teacher parents do usually understand how school systems work and know areas to focus on and are able to give their kids some focused input at different points depending on the level they teach at, but it’s also the case that most professionals in other jobs will be able to do that to a good level too…and importantly see it as important.

It’s telling that OP thinks maybe the teacher parents cheat and tell their kids about tests etc. It doesn’t seem to occur to them that perhaps the kids are bright (they seem to think not) or more likely simply that the family approach to life and education is making a real difference.

This is the thing isn’t it - values and approach to school differ. Some parents know they need to read with their kids as regularly as clockwork, naturally fill their houses with books and words and automatically are enriching their kids all the time with wider experiences. They do it even when they have busy jobs. It’s part of the culture of home. Other families just aren’t interested in this stuff and it doesn’t seem important to them and they can’t see a connection between it and outcomes at school. Sometimes they might see some kids doing better and wonder why it is…and conclude there might be cheating or bribery or it’s all diwn to money in some form…and probably actually in an indirect way it is down to money and your own upbringing which shapes how you value education and raise your own kids. Sorry, realise it’s a generalisation, but on a macro level it’s broadly true, if unpopular.

[Sweetleftfood]

My husbands parents were both teachers and my husband went to the school where his mum taught, he always says that she was a lot harder on him than on other kids.

But then my oldest DS had the head teachers kid in his class all through primary, small school and she got picked for absolutely everything and got away with everything, it was laughable at times, so I guess it's swings and roundabouts, I would not want to have my kid in the same school I taught at

[boopdeflouff]

I hear you @KarmaComma. I long for a two day weekend, they rarely happen, or an evening off. Am often working past midnight.

But I am lucky as 3/4 of my kids are in my school, and have, at one point, all been in my class. Have never experienced anything that the non teaching posters have projected on this thread, and logistically it makes everything a lot easier.

Thankfully I also have a very understanding head who knows how important it is for me to be there for my other child (SN) and so for the annual events where there might be a timetable clash, she covers me without any question. But, she is a diamond, I appreciate her and work extra hard as a result.

I feel incredibly grateful that I am in a very lucky position as I love my school, my job and the school community, and my children are all thriving and doing well
enough. It hasn't always been like that, (awful work culture in my last school and DD being horrifically bullied in her last school) and I have no doubt that if I hadn't changed schools five years ago, I would have ended up with a similar outcome to yours and probably homeschooling.

Teacher bashing on mumsnet is vile at times.

[KarmaComma]

@Hoppinggreen

They also have parents who work very long hours for less pay that other people who work similar hours.
They also have parents that probably cant attend any school events during school hours and may not be able to do regular drop offs and pick ups.
So its not all good

This. There's a reason I'm an ex teacher. I couldn't attend any sports day, or special assembly, or nativity, or volunteer as a parent helper on trips/in class. I could never take my child to school or pick him up. The evenings I would be waiting for my kids to go to sleep so I could start working again. I felt like a rubbish mum during term time.

I couldn't take the guilt anymore and quit.

[DuesToTheDirt]

@hullabaloo22

My parents were not teachers and I don't remember being home unless I had an extremely high fever (which I never seemed to have). ;)
I think education is valued and kids encouraged to behave and be respectful to teachers in many homes...

Of course. Homes where education is prioritised include both teacher-parents and non-teacher-parents.

But do any homes where education is not prioritised include any teacher-parents? I don't imagine they do.

[hullabaloo22]

@DuesToTheDirt

it's more likely they are being brought up in an environment where education is valued and prioritised.

Hell yes. My parents were both teachers and when I read threads here of people wanting to take holidays in term time, or take a sunny day off school to go to the beach, or just give them a duvet day.... . OK so my parents couldn't have taken me anywhere on a school day as they were at work, but I could have stayed off school sick etc. (there was another family member at home). I didn't though. I don't remember ever staying home sick - I'd have had to be nearly dead first.

My parents were not teachers and I don't remember being home unless I had an extremely high fever (which I never seemed to have). ;)
I think education is valued and kids encouraged to behave and be respectful to teachers in many homes...

[DuesToTheDirt]

it's more likely they are being brought up in an environment where education is valued and prioritised.

Hell yes. My parents were both teachers and when I read threads here of people wanting to take holidays in term time, or take a sunny day off school to go to the beach, or just give them a duvet day.... . OK so my parents couldn't have taken me anywhere on a school day as they were at work, but I could have stayed off school sick etc. (there was another family member at home). I didn't though. I don't remember ever staying home sick - I'd have had to be nearly dead first.

[hullabaloo22]

@butwait

@RosesAndHellebores my 'not linear' was aimed at @Haudyourwheesht not you. You sound like a perfect example of the fact that 'success' isn't linear. In my case, I wouldn't be at all surprised if at least one of my children ended up teaching. I would count that as a 'success' if it's what they want to do and makes them happy. Other people would look at income level and say that teaching would not be a 'successful' outcome given the child's current academic success. So much depends on definitions.

Interesting, agree I don't think they're brighter at all but they seem to - all other things being equal (my DC go to a school where all parents are involved e.g. reading, museums, playing educational games etc etc) they seem to do better academically.

[Dahlietta]

I am a teacher and have taught loads of teachers' kids in my time. I just don't think that this is a thing!