Buying house closer in catchment - renting out current house

[TheWayOfTheWorld]

Not sure where else to put this - hoping someone will know if this is generally ok or not.

We live in the South East in a city with great state schools, but I cocked up when buying our house a few years ago in that it is not really in catchment for any of those secondary schools (we'd get into a single sex school or a faith school, neither of which would be appropriate for our DC).

Ideally we would sell current house and move closer to the secondaries we want, but given how things are with the market etc I'm worried we wouldn't be able to accomplish this in time for school applications. I'm therefore making contingencies in case we find a house we like but can't sell existing one quickly enough

I know it isn't on to rent a school in catchment and continue to own a house nearby. Does anyone know what the typical rule is if you overlap - ie rent out the existing owned house to tenants and move into a new owned property (in catchment)?. Thanks.

[admission]

OP, whilst everybody has opinions, the only sensible thing to do is to look on the LA website under admissions and see what they say. Unfortunately this information and detail of what is and is not allowed is frequently hidden away on the website, so you will probably have to actually ask the LA admission office.
I would ask the question in the context of you have already moved into a new property near to the school but currently have a previous house which is on a long term rent and that you want to check that the address to use is the one that child sleeps at.Get them to confirm this in writing. If you do it early this next year and you get the right answer then it becomes a vital piece of evidence if the LA subsequently come back and do not allow the new property as the property you are living in.
Bottom line to be safe is you need to have moved into new house before the summer holidays and sold the old house so there is no possibility of using the old address.

[Darbs76]

I know people who have done it. My hairdresser (in Surrey) just said her son lived with her mother as she was over crowded. She had to move the child benefit - but she literally moved it back over soon as the place was given

[etluxperpetua]

It's not necessarily the case that it's nothing to do with the school. This may vary from LA to LA, but around here, although the LA coordinates the application process and makes the offers, it's the schools that check the address evidence. They will then contact the LA for advice if they are suspicious, and the LA might tell them to seek further evidence - and then ultimately the LA will investigate further and withdraw the place if necessary. But it's the school that would initially be checking the evidence and identifying potential fraud.

[LolaSmiles]

I know people who have done it. My hairdresser (in Surrey) just said her son lived with her mother as she was over crowded. She had to move the child benefit - but she literally moved it back over soon as the place was given

When people ask why there has to be checks, this is why.
Some people think nothing of making fraudulent applications and depriving a child of a place they deserve.

Each time someone does this, a child who deserves their rightful place loses out.

[Bluerussian]

The op isn't considering doing anything fraudulent though, is she, she is intending to move. Granted the move is for the family to live in the catchment area but no one will be pretending they are living there, they will be.

[Unusualsuspicion]

Depends where you live. In Cambridge the admissions authority are a-ok with people temporarily renting in catchment while still owning a house nearby. They'll even suggest it as an option if you don't get the place you want. Astonishing, but there it is. I know several families who've availed themselves of the option, effectively the state school place of your choice is open to you in return for 6 months rent. Not bitter or anything.

[Unusualsuspicion]

(to be fair you do actually need to live in the alternative property!)

[ElluesPichulobu]

she is intending to move, she is intending to sell the old house. these facts are irrelevant. intentions are not among the criteria used for allocating school places. the rules will state that if she hasn't sold the old house by the date of the applications deadline then the address on the application must be the old address. if she sells the old house between the applications deadline and the places offer date, I believe it is allowable to request that the application should be treated as a late application from the new address rather than as an on- time application from the old address.

if she ignores these rules and puts in an application using the new address contrary to these rules then that would be fraudulent not because there was any intention not to move but because she had no right to make an application using that address.

[Bluerussian]

Do they really look into where you lived before, whether you own or rent? I would have thought if the op was living in a new (rented) house at time of application it wouldn't matter if the previous house hadn't been sold as long as it was up for sale.

[LolaSmiles]

blue
They do where there's concerns. It's one of those situations where the procedure has to cater to the lowest standard of conduct.

Unfortunately whilst many people are honest, others think nothing of defrauding children out of their rightful places.

I'm not saying the OP has done that, but ultimately they will have to read the rules and dates carefully and follow it. If they don't then they could find themselves brought into question

[etluxperpetua]

Yes, bluerussian, they might well. As admission said upthread, the thing to do is to read the guidance for the OP's own LA and see what their rules are. Around here, they would want to see rental agreement (with date started) or two years' worth of council tax. If the rental started recently, or you only had the most recent council tax, they would then ask for further evidence to show where you moved from and when.

[etluxperpetua]

NB schools are also asked to monitor house moves for quite a long time after the child starts school, and to report any suspicious cases to the LA.

[Mumto2two]

Yes of course they look at this quite closely. When I spoke to the LA regarding our delayed completion date and filling in our form, I was categorically told I would have to file the application under our existing home ownership, and had to provide council tax evidence of that address, and of course our daughter’s school is close by. If we were to rent out our house and buy or rent another house in the catchment area of the other school we wanted, just so we could guarantee a place..that would have been seen as trying to circumvent the system. If we really wanted that school, we should have planned our move earlier, in order to guarantee the place...and even though the delays were beyond our control, holds no sway at all. We had to apply on distance only..which is very unlikely, but that was the fair and honest thing to do.

[TheWayOfTheWorld]

To those of you reading my posts and not making (incorrect) assumptions, thank you. Some useful advice, all taken on board. The application rules on the school site state home address must be the child's permanent residence, nothing about it having been so for the last two years. I will double check the LA website as well.

For the eleventy billionth time, this is not in respect of an application for next year, I am musing/pondering/contingency planning - the application will be in 2022 so if we start the moving process next summer/Autumn I would hope that we would have sorted it all out within the following two years. So in fact the opposite of everyone accusing me of being disorganised etc

[LolaSmiles]

I'd also speak directly to the LA as some LA websites are notorious for burying documents and information so there's summary versions and then full policies are somewhere impossible to find.

As others have said, the more you can get in writing from them and the sooner you move the better.

[TheWayOfTheWorld]

@LolaSmiles agreed

[OrangeZog]

If you do it early this next year and you get the right answer then it becomes a vital piece of evidence if the LA subsequently come back and do not allow the new property as the property you are living in.

It’s only the right answer if the question you ask is honest. So if you do as PP suggest and lie by saying you have a long term tenant in your house when you are actually still residing in it, it won’t be evidence in your favour. Just chat to the school admissions team and be honest.

[Wtfdoipick]

In my case it would have worked in my favour but the school wasn't oversubscribed any way but I was living in property a and renting out property b, property b had been the previous family home, property a was the new permanent family home. Because I still owned property b and had lived there within the previous 2 years that was the one that the local authority used for my address for application purposes.

[ElluesPichulobu]

nothing about it having been so for the last two years - quite right too! They couldn't possibly have such a rule, it would be discriminatory against children whose families aren't very stable for one thing. It's only that if you haven't been there for the last 2 years they will almost certainly make checks in case of someone trying to play the system.

It is perfectly reasonable for a family who own no property to be in one rental until 3 weeks before the deadline date, move out of that property and rent near the school for a year, and then move further away when that tenancy ends - tenants don't get much choice about it when they are asked to move.

But as this isn't even an issue for over 2 years and you have bags of time. Very sensible to be prepared well in advance and aware of the pitfalls.

[Unusualsuspicion]

To repeat, it may be fraud in moral terms to rent in catchment temporarily, but not all LAs care. So check whether they do or not! If you ring ours, they'll say 'as long as you are actually living in the property at the time you are offered a place, that's fine.' There are no finer-grained checks about whether you also own another property nearby. Or at least that's what they told me last year.