Buying house closer in catchment - renting out current house

[TheWayOfTheWorld]

Not sure where else to put this - hoping someone will know if this is generally ok or not.

We live in the South East in a city with great state schools, but I cocked up when buying our house a few years ago in that it is not really in catchment for any of those secondary schools (we'd get into a single sex school or a faith school, neither of which would be appropriate for our DC).

Ideally we would sell current house and move closer to the secondaries we want, but given how things are with the market etc I'm worried we wouldn't be able to accomplish this in time for school applications. I'm therefore making contingencies in case we find a house we like but can't sell existing one quickly enough

I know it isn't on to rent a school in catchment and continue to own a house nearby. Does anyone know what the typical rule is if you overlap - ie rent out the existing owned house to tenants and move into a new owned property (in catchment)?. Thanks.

[Mumto2two]

Bluerussian

t all depends on how much the school wants the child

Rubbish.

every year people fall victim to misinformation and myths about school admissions. Please do not spread such ill informed myths.

@BlouseAndSkirt - It is amusing the pie eyed notions people can have with all this. There is one lady at our school, who regularly broadcasts this, and will not listen to anyone who dares to contradict. She feels her child will get her GS place, because of her nationality being renowned for being ‘clever’ and with a score of 126, all the schools will be fighting for her....(which is pretty borderline here, but completely irrelevant, as anyone with 121+ Is eligible, and there is no ranking at all. Another lady thinks they can school hop with her child’s place..because once you have the place...it’s yours to keep

[JoJoSM2]

OP, just read the admissions policy carefully. I can’t see what the LA would do if you actually live at the rented address. There is no way they could prove you don’t intend to stay living in the catchment.

Having said that, if it’s as genuine as you claim, you’ve got almost a year to move so not sure why that would be that tricky?

[Velveteenfruitbowl]

I would consider the amount you’ll be spending on SDLT and CGT. The money might be better spent supplementing the education available to her currently than on moving to go to a different school.

[titchy]

There is no way they could prove you don’t intend to stay living in the catchmen

That's the thing - they don't have to prove anything. If they suspect, they remove your place and offer you one based on the original address.

[LolaSmiles]

OP, just read the admissions policy carefully. I can’t see what the LA would do if you actually live at the rented address.
There is no way they could prove you don’t intend to stay living in the catchment
Many people trying to do admission fraud live at their rental address for the purpose of making the fraudulent application.

As others have said, they need reasonable suspicion, which is absolutely created by moving into a rental around admission times whilst retaining a long term family home close by.

[Bluerussian]

I'm not spreading myths, just saying what I know to be true. Pupils are accepted at schools outside of their catchment area - that's a fact. Of course it helps if you are in the catchment area and I don't blame the op for moving for that reason. People do whatever they can to help their children.

[TheWayOfTheWorld]

Please re-read my OP - I am not suggesting or proposing to rent a house in catchment/close to the school and keep our current house, I am fully aware that is not on. We would buy that house and move into it and live there.

I am suggesting renting out the current house IF it didn't sell as I don't really want to be paying two mortgages.

But point taken that there are not the resources to establish intentions etc. I will have a close read of the admissions criteria as suggested.

Timing wise we are not applying October 2020 but I like to plan ahead and understand what my options are

[TeenPlusTwenties]

TheWay People aren't saying you are trying to be fraudulent, they are just saying the LA might treat it as if it were fraudulent.

Otherwise someone could:

• own a nice 4 bedroom house
  
• buy / rent a pokey 2 bedroom flat near desired school & move in
  
• put nice house up for sale or rent it out temporarily
  
• get given school place
  
• move back to old house

[TeenPlusTwenties]

Blue The myth was the statement 'depends how much the school wants the child'.

Of course some schools take children from out of catchment. But if the OP is going to spend £££ moving to be closer to desired school, I would assume she has looked at admission criteria and last distance offered info and believes she is unlikely to get in from current location (or wants to improve the odd).

[BlouseAndSkirt]

Bluerussian Yes of course schools take kids from outside catchment, if they operate a catchment, and if they have capacity within their PAN. They allocate those spaces according to the published admissions criteria.

Nothing to do with ‘how badly they want your child ‘. That is the misinformation.

[Mumto2two]

In the interests of ‘fairness’, this is still arguably a grey area. There are few people who are in a position of being able to purchase / mortgage two properties, and conveniently take up residence, in the one that bags them a place in catchment...

[MiniEggAddiction]

There are some local grammars around here that take kids out of catchment if they score high enough on the 11+ but that would be clearly stated on their admission policy.

[LolaSmiles]

Please re-read my OP - I am not suggesting or proposing to rent a house in catchment/close to the school and keep our current house, I am fully aware that is not on. We would buy that house and move into it and live there.

I am suggesting renting out the current house IF it didn't sell as I don't really want to be paying two mortgages.

Yes, so there's a situation where you would be having a rental for the purposes of school admissions and an owned family property within the area, which is exactly what many of us are saying is the problem.

It's neither here nor there if it's your first choice set up or plan B. You can't have an owned property and then use a rental for the purposes of school admissions.

[RedskyToNight]

So is your house on the market already? It sounds like not?

Your problem is that people who want to move for school purposes ... actually move for school purposes. They don't start thinking about it 10 months before they have to apply (which is not really thinking ahead if you have a house you suspect might take a while to sell).
It's not a question of you really intend to move - it's a question of you proving that you really intend to move.

[TheWayOfTheWorld]

@RedskyToNight no it is not on the market yet - as per previous post we are not applying in 10 months' time.

I've asked the question now as I'm planning for a couple of years ahead and trying to foresee what problems could arise. Clearly we will just have to pull the trigger a good 18 months or so before applying.

[BlouseAndSkirt]

"Yes, so there's a situation where you would be having a rental for the purposes of school admissions and an owned family property within the area, which is exactly what many of us are saying is the problem.

It's neither here nor there if it's your first choice set up or plan B. You can't have an owned property and then use a rental for the purposes of school admissions."

This is NOT what the OP is proposing.

The OP is proposing to buy a house in the area of the city with good schools - as she would have done when they first moved there had she realised.

She will buy this house and move into it.

Then, if her old house has not sold she will put tenants in it.

I cannot see how a LA could claim that it is fraudulent to buy and live in your own house.

Yes, it is something that is possible only for people who can afford it, but then people who are renters have the flexibility to give up a tenancy and rent closer to the school.

Plenty of people own more than one property, live in one and rent the other out.

[Bluerussian]

MiniEggAddiction Tue 03-Dec-19 12:47:10
There are some local grammars around here that take kids out of catchment if they score high enough on the 11+ but that would be clearly stated on their admission policy.
........
It's the same here, the grammars are what I was thinking of and they are highly rated, two in Bromley, two in Bexley that I know - there may be others. We live just in the Borough of Greenwich but people around us had children who went to the grammars in Bexley and Bromley so it is possible. I think I said earlier my son was offered a place but didn't take it up, he was awarded a bursary for an independent school not too far away and preferred that. I've also read about other children attending who live (what I consider to be) quite a long way away.

Lots of people do move to be nearer good schools, people we know did that - they were actually in the same road as desired school though further down. Both their children were accepted.

However I wonder how parents would feel if they did move for that reason and then their child was turned down.

What the op is proposing seems sensible enough to me. Once a child is in a school they aren't going to be turfed out if the family moves house to somewhere not far away but not in the catchment area.

I wouldn't have done it but not because I think it's wrong; I find moving quite an upheaval and I've liked living where I am since 1984, am content with it. Regarding schools I was prepared to do a bit of research and hope for the best. However I don't blame people for doing it and if it works out, that's great.

[LolaSmiles]

blouse
I'd totally misread her update. That'll teach me to be multitasking. Thanks. Sorry OP

If things are drawn up properly and the move is through in good time then it shouldn't be an issue.

Timing could well be an issue if they want to count the new address and they've not been in their new house. It is still possible for previous addresses to be counted for admissions purposes.

[OrangeZog]

I think that unless you have sold your current house you would probably be considered as trying to fraudulently get your DC into a school they are not eligible for.

Check out the secondary schools admissions policies as some are connected to feeder schools and it enables children from a wide area the opportunity to get a legitimate space there, even over children who live within walking distance.

[OrangeZog]

Once a child is in a school they aren't going to be turfed out if the family moves house to somewhere not far away but not in the catchment area.

They will if it turns out they shouldn’t have been given that space in the first place because a parent was playing the system.

[Bluerussian]

How on earth are they going to find out? Again, what is wrong in moving to somewhere within a catchment area for that reason? It's not underhand, people do it all the time.

I think the registrar at the school would just note the address and not ask any more details, they have enough red tape without delving into that sort of thing.

[LolaSmiles]

If there's discrepancies or concerns on timings then they can investigate and places can be revoked and dismissed.

Unfortunately there's enough dishonest people out there.
I remember prior to things clamping down more, a family near me being outraged when they got caught claiming the children lived at their grandparent's house.

It's not about red tape. It's about ensuring the children get into the schools they are rightfully entitled to.

Why should child A not get into their local school because parent B decided to lie about addresses and fraudulently apply in order to get a school place that isn't rightfully their child's? Parent B then shuttles their child from the real home to their chosen school, whilst child A has to be bussed half way across town as a consequence of someone else's dishonesty. Ultimately would you want your child getting a worse school or a really long commute so that a liar can fraudulently take your child's place at the better school?

If there is a legitimate move and all is in order in the correct time frame then nobody is going to be bothered because it's a legitimate application. If it's legitimate but there are concerns over timing it will be investigated. If it's textbook fraudulent activity then authorities can act.

[titchy]

I think the registrar at the school would just note the address and not ask any more details, they have enough red tape without delving into that sort of thing.

Applications, even to academies, are co-ordinated by Local Authorities, who check council tax and electoral records. Schools are in no way responsible!

[OrangeZog]

I think the registrar at the school would just note the address and not ask any more details, they have enough red tape without delving into that sort of thing.

The school has nothing to do with it. The school admissions department for each county council deals with all of the school places and then informs each school of their pupils.

[Mumto2two]

Thankfully it is taken more seriously than just a bit of ‘red tape’.
The new house we had purchased, was in catchment for a very highly sought after grammar, but the sale of our old house did not complete until after the deadline for address registration. What a shame we didn’t have the luxury of just buying another house to move into..before releasing the equity from our existing home, just so we could prove that our move was legitimate