Music grade 8 at top schools (Wycombe Abbey, St Paul's Girls, etc)

[Star555]

On average, by what year (before/after GCSE?) do pupils pass ABRSM/Trinity Grade 8 music exams in order to be in the top symphony orchestras at schools like WA and SPGS? Is it "normal" for musically-high-achieving girls to go for ABRSM diplomas beyond Grade 8, even if they are not planning for a music career?

IME lots of SPGS people carry on making music throughout their lives, because they love it. Sometimes as part of a portfolio career, sometimes semi-professionally, but mostly as part of amateur choirs / orchestras and purely for fun.

There is a lot of rubbish written on here ... "According to ABRSM statistics the average age of a Grade 8 candidate is 16 years and 9 months (16.74 years) (UCAS Tariff Expert Group Report, 2002, p.18)" ... I' work in music education and I'm truly struggling to think of many Grade 8s at primary school. And the few I can dredge up were not good musicians ...

From the times today an article about one of the Kanneh-Masons

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/isata-kanneh-mason-the-next-star-from-britains-most-musical-family-v5t8lpb86?shareToken=18e5b9131333ebe50a7d475d5f5aaa6b

THOSE KANNEH-MASONS IN FULL

Isata, 23
From September, 2nd-year postgraduate piano at the Royal Academy of Music (RAM)
Piano, grade 8 at the age of 11
Violin, grade 8 at 12
Viola, grade 8 at 13

Braimah, 21
From September, 4th-year violin undergraduate at RAM
Violin, grade 8 at 12
Piano, grade 8 at 14

Sheku, 20
From September, 3rd-year cello undergraduate at the RAM
Cello, grade 8 at 9
Piano, grade 8 at 13

Konya, 18
From September, 2nd-year piano undergradate at the RAM
Piano, grade 8 at 11
Violin, grade 8 at 12

Jeneba, 16
Pianist, studies piano and cello at Junior RAM
Piano, grade 8 at 9
Cello, grade 8 at 12

Aminata, 13
Violinist, studies violin and piano at Junior RAM
Violin, grade 8 at 11
Piano, grade 8 at 12

Mariatu, 10
Cellist, starts primary RAM in September, but already travels there every Saturday for lessons
Cello, grade 7, results pending
Piano, grade 5, results pending

Yes, marvellous people, state school as well ... but not typical.

My 11 yrs old daughter(yr6) plays violin(G7) and piano(G8), in terms of grades she might be slightly more advanced however we all know that in the end it doesnt matter(similar to parents comparing children who could speak first, walk first etc.). She also plays chess for the county and swims for the county too. She is busier than both of us/her parents. She loves them all though.

I am taking her off for a small break from her current Orchestra( due to family situation) and she was very sad. I think children these days are so lucky to have all these chances to try and may could take on various hobbies at high level at very young age. Eventually she will have to drop some of these activities( chess takes so much time especially the tournaments), swimming 5 evenings a week isnt enough to bring her to the level she aims for. 1-2hrs music practice each day for both instruments to keep up with the level she pursues eats alot of her time. So, yes, there are children who could play instruments at high level at early age however in the end it doesnt matter. Some of them can carry on pursuing music at much higher level, some pursue other hobbies or just trying to maintain all hobbies hence wont be overly excel at all stuffs. Judging children who have G8 or above at young age as if they are either prodigy or having Tiger parents proves you just as competitive or trying to play down many children determination/hard work in doing their best themself and its nothing sad/bad if they want to drop whenever they like.

Sorry didn’t mean to imply they were typical...

very talented family above, not unusual in their state school education. Throughout the years many of the YMOTY were from state schools and taught by private sector.
Most were state school when we were at various the local peri's can't teach to that level. The youngest is having lessons at conservatoire before old enough for JD. Even though they must be putting in the hours of practice it must be so much easier with such teachers.

I didn't mean to say there were MANY g8 at primary school. I just wanted to point out it wasn't THAT rare and certainly achievable for some DCs without leading an unhealthy hot-housed lifestyle contrary to many people's rather short-sighted assumptions... It's true though there are many young kids who passed g8 but can't play at g8 standard.

Judging children who have G8 or above at young age as if they are either prodigy or having Tiger parents proves you just as competitive or trying to play down many children determination/hard work in doing their best

We're not judging Greenleave - just wondering, complete with amazement and, sure, more than a dash of envy. . . Because as someone else has said we know how hard work it is, even for quite talented non-prodigies!
Calling someone a prodigy is not a value judgement; if anything it's a compliment. Tiger Parent may be, but even that some will take as a compliment I believe.

You only have to look on Instagram to see that pushy parents are rife; there are so many running accounts on behalf of their young children, documenting every practice session.
They can't all be prodigies.

Achieving g8 at primary school isn't an indication of prodigy though... Many of them are either very able (but not a prodigy) or able + tiger parents...? Not sure. But what's most certainly true is many real prodigies won't take grading exams!

I was talking about classical music but sure there should be prodigies in any area and field. I wouldn't believe you know 'many' prodigies though. Prodigies should be a rare thing. I think most of the times when people are referring someone as a prodigy, they are referring someone who is naturally very very ability. Obviously they are amazing but they aren't a prodigy. You won't see 'many' prodigies.

I also object to the assumption that prodigies means they can be or should be amazing without any teaching (I don't mean you said so, Sherry19, just this came across in my head while we were on this topic). Prodigies still need some sort of guiding and support to be able to flourish properly. They almost certainly need nurturing environment according to their talent.

*ability = able

On average girls interested in music come in with into y7 in the range of g5-g8. Often music scholars and strong g7-g8 string players go straight into the top orchestra. By year 9, latest 10 usually of of the initial group would be in the top orchestra with g7-g8+, then GCSE, then diploma and performance work.

At our prep there seems to be a rush to get through the grades with little regard to what level of pass they are getting. For example, one child has Grade 7 singing in Y5 but they barely scraped a pass and previous grades were a mixture of passes and merits. So yes, they passed the grade BUT another child in the same year has Grade 4 singing with a string a extremely high distinctions in all exams.

On the school literature it’s the Grade 7 child who gets a mention but when it comes to performances it’s the Grade 4 child who gets the solos. They are more accomplished and a far better and natural performer.

They are both trying for music scholarships at the same school. Will be interesting to see which one triumphs!!

Depends on the school, SPGS would expect g5 distinction at a minimum

My DD attends one of the (top 4) schools that would fall in the above etc. category.

Last year there were 3 girls that had reached Grade 8 on their primary orchestral instrument (violin, cello or violin) and around 7 on their second - 2 received music scholarships and 1 did not.

This year the girls that received scholarships are on Grade 5 on their primary orchestral instrument.

We have heard that Spgs discourages applications from anyone under G8 standard at 11+. (Not necessarily taken exams as many high powered teachers at Junior RCM etc don't put kids into exams). I don't have a girl though so not personal experience!

Sheku won Young Musician of the Year. That puts him right at the top. His family are pretty exceptional. It is not usual for children to get Grade 8 at that age.

Dh went to conservatoire. We know many professional musicians though most are orchestra standard not virtuoso soloists. The average for Grade 8 was somewhere between the age of 15-17

Many at SPGS already have grade 8 in year 7, some may not have the actual grade but play at that standard.

Mixing with a huge variety of parents through my youngest child's hobbies, I have always remembered a parent who told me that her child (beginning of year 6) was county level at a sport, and she was pushing him to get his grade 8 violin before the end of the school year, so that he could drop it entirely and focus on academic work. She was vocally relieved that she would never gave to listen to him play again.

He was aiming for 13 plus Public School, and she wanted it for his CV.

I actually didn't know what to say (I have a very musical dc who hasn't done any grades, but has just been invited to play for County Orchestra).