Life at St Paul's Boy's In Barnes

[Stopshrieking]

Following on from a similar thread about SPGS -
Could any current parents give some insight into the school - Do parents have a similar reputation for being too competitive at the expense of the boys well being?
If you have a boy there do you still use tutors if so why and if not is it something you feel you should do?
Also I've heard the boys get lots of homework- does that mean that they don't have time for extra curricular weekday clubs outside of school ?
Would like some info as my son will start Yr7 in Sept and coming from state school. We have never used a tutor as we couldn't afford it and are not likely to in the future - Will he fall behind those being tutored?
He does extra curricular sport and music after school - would the homework be too much for him to continue these in Yr7.
Would really like to hear parents views on bullying as well - and generally how they have managed friendships especially if they came from a state school. Thanks

DD said at the time that every Paulina she knew of who had applied to Tiffin Girls had been offered a place there. I would be interested to hear from any Tiffin parents if it works the other way round too! I suspect there is a very high level of correlation between the two sets of results.

I gave up on this discussion as It is basically speaking to a brick (ill-informed and incorrect) wall. Wayland is indeed making extremely strongly the point of high fees, and I would not be surprised if s/he is the reiteration of that poster FlumePlume is referring to. The rate of rise of fees in light of normal incomes is reasonable, but the rest of the allegations made against these two schools are baffling in their lack of correspondence to reality.

In terms of the suggestion to homeschool academic children instead of sending them to SPS or SPGS, s/he is truly not getting the fact that the thing which makes these schools worth the fees for the parents with the choice of these schools are the things these schools provide outside the classroom - things which educate the child and develop them in a manner which just schooling will not. It is sad that Wayland does not understand that the point of education is far more than exam results and university destinations.

OP congratulations to your DS and I hope he has a wonderful time at the school.

There really isn’t any ongoing tutoring so don’t worry about that. The boys take the work in their stride and there’s plenty of support if they need it. Plenty of time for activities too, but school activities will begin to be very important, especially if your son likes sport or drama or music.

As far as Wayland’s comments go - almost every child who enters SPS or SPGS stays there the whole way through. There is NO massaging of exam entries at all - all children are entered for all the subjects. The results are what they are shown as. Wayland seems to be trying to make a case that these schools are average and they are not - of course there are some relatively less able or motivated children at each, but the teaching is fast paced and entertaining and able children are stretched. And as for the ‘rich kids are stupid’ trope - there are indeed rich families there but often they are rich because the parents are smart and have earned their riches. Not much inherited wealth there. Some of my DCs richest friends have also been the smartest! And really nice too.

Bursaries are a huge thing at SPS: they go up to household income of £120,000. The aim is that no boy should be deprived of the education because of money.

I can't help wanting to counter the obvious untruths being bandied about even though it's clearly pointless in terms of Wayland. Googling this type of thing quite often throws up MN threads and I can imagine someone stumbling on threads of this type and thinking 'oh no, that sounds awful' when in fact most of Wayland's posts are a farrago of lies, ignorance and attempts to muddy the waters (like the suggestion of massaging exam figures as debunked by WorkingItOutAsIGo).

As for not entering boys for exams or chucking them out after GCSEs, that's complete nonsense - in my DS's year, one left to go boarding because home was somewhat chaotic and one left in order to do photography A level elsewhere. No one was purged.

One in DS year was suggested to leave after GCSE year but that was due to other behaviour!

With Dd at Spgs 1 girl left for mental health and 3-4 due to family relocation overseas. A few do leave after gcse to go to a Westminster , Kings for a coed sixth form

Hello,

I just want to clear up some misconceptions regarding my posts about SPGS and SPS.

Firstly, I have not in any way suggested that these are bad schools, or even that they are mediocre schools. They are generally very good in terms of teacher quality and facilities, in some ways exemplary.

The point I was trying to make is that these schools depend on fee-payers, and so therefore it will be illogical for them to not admit some full-fee-paying students who do not meet their ideal academic criteria, considering that they make £26,000 a year with every full-fee-paying day student.

Nonetheless, these schools have been trying to provide more bursaries for those really deserving cases, and this is highly commendable. I'm sure these schools would love to be able to admit the brightest students regardless of their ability to pay fees. But they would need state-funding for this and our politicians would need to lose their current hostility to selective state schools.

And so my comments were more about the sorts of students who will be attending these schools, rather than the schools themselves.

Also, I did not accuse these schools of shady practices. May I repeat what I said previously: As we have no information on drop out rates or non-registration rates for examinations for SPGS and SPS, we just don't know either way.

I just stated that in general, league table performance doesn't give a full picture of a schools performance, and that there are many ways in which any school can artificially boost its league table performance.

I hope this clears up any misunderstandings.

Regards,

Wayland

@GirlGone "My DS is now in senior school and he takes longer over his appearance than Dd- especially the hair"

You are right, some of the older boys have realised their appearance matters a bit (perhaps as the social scene with females starts).

My 15 year old might be on the cusp of that, but from 11 to 15 it's been muddy shoes, untucked ink covered shirts, no tie, no blazer all the way ... not a moment spent on hair!

I like that the school isn't stuff and strict and that its the boys who decide to smarten themselves up. Other schools we know give boys detentions for incorrect tie lengths .....

@Wayland

"As we have no information on drop out rates or non-registration rates for examinations for SPGS and SPS, we just don't know either way."

"And so my comments were more about the sorts of students who will be attending these schools, rather than the schools themselves."

I suspect you have no or little information on either of these points as you are not a parent or member of staff at the school - please tell me if I'm wrong. Others on this thread are parents and have good information on these points which they have shared. What is the value of your contribution to thread and prospective parents?

But Wayland, why do you keep saying so formally ‘we have no information on drop out rates’ etc etc. I just gave you some! My DS who is sitting next to me has told me that 2 boys out of his year have left in three years, neither for academic reasons. Same experience with my other DC.

As far as exam entries go, I told you that everyone is entered for everything but you can check for yourself by looking at published exam performance. Not at a PC now but if you check say the number of declared gcse results for the subjects that everyone takes like maths and English, you can compare that with the year group size to reassure yourself that everyone is entered for everything and there is no massaging. Year group size info for reference: 110 at SPGS and at SPS usually around 186.

WorkingItOutAsIGo

But Wayland, why do you keep saying so formally ‘we have no information on drop out rates’ etc etc. I just gave you some!

They were only anecdotes. We need full comparable statistics regarding the schools in question.

Wayland- how on earth can you quantify your statement re teachers “ They are generally very good in terms of teacher quality” what are you comparing to, you have no first hand experience of either school!

You are just coming across as wilfully ignorant now, Wayland. I'd give up before digging the hole any deeper if I were you.

@Wayland

A prospective parent is looking for advice from "current parents". Current parents have given their experience and knowledge of the school which will extend to a good understanding of what happens to the years groups their sons are in.

I am still baffled by how you think your opinion is of any relevance to the original poster's question given you have no experience, evidence or anything else regarding a school you seem to have no relationship with.

Please ask yourself how helpful your responses are to a prospective parent given the above.

MN164- at the no blazer all the way. Yes... even in mid winter! But the shirt sleeves would be neatly rolled :) that has changed thankfully. Complete reversal with Dd some days I think she is wearing sleepwear

Wayland- the last comment I’m going to make back to you is that the schools can only select from those that apply. In Dds year 8% are bursary funded but out of those only 3 from state schools. As with the boys school the bursary ceiling is £110K gross per year, meaning that parents that can afford private prep schools may also qualify for bursaries therefore bursaries don’t necessarily reach the low income children I think you are talking about. Spgs does outreach summer schools aimed at state primary school children to try to create opportunities for families to experience learning in an independent school and perhaps to consider applying via the bursary scheme. Could they do more , possibly, the school talks of wanting to reach a 20% bursary target, but as a small school those bursaries are funded through fundraising.
There is still a lot of inverted snobbery towards independent schools and “ the type” ie rich stereotype, of children who attend. Inevitably some amazing children from state schools who would thrive in an academic independent school will never have that chance simply because their parents will not apply.

Hi OP
My take may be out of date but what I would say is that having been at one of our more competitive universities, I did note tons of people from St. Paul’s there and took against the school on the basis of them - they were uniformly smug despite often being fairly mediocre by the standards of the institution. Certainly none took the glittering prizes. Danger is schools like that are v good at stuffing people through a levels and making them look like oxbridge material but when they get there turns out they’re not all that. Admissions tutors to blame of course.
If your ds got in from state with no tutoring I doubt he’ll be one of these! But might be worth keeping an eye on any burgeoning sense of entitlement. Can be pretty insufferable.

Angrylama - thank you for that viewpoint - it's an area I will be looking out for - also the signs of sexism that Girlgone mentioned.

A year on, I’m one such parent, with a child in a local primary school having been offered a place at SPJS 11+. The admissions process has been very sparse in contact and content compared to Latymer & Hampton, and so in this vacuum I took to the forums to try to weed through the vitriol and find parents with current children at the school to give an insight. Thank for your comment on this now older thread. Two years on, it has somewhat put my mind a little at rest!