BTEC versus A levels

[GaribaldiGirl]

My son is in GCSE year. He has an above average IQ but has slow processing and a poor working memory - he therefore has always found schoolwork and exams harder than most. I think he’ll get 5/6s in most subjects.

I’m wondering whether BTECs are better suited to pupils like him. I believe they have more coursework.

Any advice appreciated, particularly from anyone with experience of BTECs. Most people I know seem very A level focused.

He’s going to move schools for sixth form and one of the ones we’ve looked at has a BTEC option. His current school is strictly A levels or Baccalaureate only.

[GaribaldiGirl]

Thanks cricketballs. That’s useful. So it’s less than half coursework if I understand you correctly?

He’s currently in an independent school with small classes and great support. We’ll have to move him for a BTEC option. Our local sixth form college (5 minute walk from our house) does the level 3 one but currently has a poor reputation which concerns me. I’ll look into it though. There’s another private school nearby which does single unit BTECs but he’d need to mix it with an A level I think.

[Fazackerley]

Check the private schools .

Recently a few near us have added Btecs.

If you are anywhere near Somerset Milton Abbey does every single btec there is!!

[Fazackerley]

PE a level has 30 percent coursework and I think geography has coursework too.

[TapasForTwo]

Geography coursework only accounts for 20% of the final mark. History and English lit are the same.

[VelvetPineapple]

BTECs are much easier than A levels and there is heaps more support available to complete the assessed work. The grade doesn’t hinge on your performance on one exam day so is a fairer representation of ability, less stressful and harder to fail. The same person will typically score significantly higher grades on a BTEC than on A levels. And they’re worth the same in terms of university admissions. In fact the main reason they introduced exams into the BTEC a couple of years ago was because people were complaining it was too easy in comparison to A levels and it was unfair for it to be worth the same UCAS points when it was so easy.

[cricketballs3]

"So it’s less than half coursework"

No, the majority is still coursework (number of units depends on weighting) but note the externals and the importance they have on final grade

[cricketballs3]

@VelvetPineapple I'm about to go into work but I will address your post in full later although I would like to state that they are not easier, but assessed differently (in fact many BTEC units contain far more difficult content than A levels)

[VelvetPineapple]

They are piss easy. I taught BTEC for five years.

[TeenTimesTwo]

BTECs are much easier than A levels and there is heaps more support available to complete the assessed work. They are piss easy.

Not in my DD's experience.

There was support to get the Pass (E grade equivalent) but very limited support on how to achieve higher levels. With A levels you get decent feedback on your essays - where you are going wrong, model answers, etc You get nearly 2 years to perfect your technique.
With BTECs if it takes you a bit of time to 'get' what is required you're stuffed as you have already missed out on higher grades in the early units which caps your overall score. Especially if the college is working on 3 units in parallel so you have submitted stuff for all 3 units before you get any feedback.
Some of DD's tasks were so poorly defined she couldn't see what was required. The data for some research needed didn't seem to exist.

[GaribaldiGirl]

Cricketballs - thanks! I thought externals meant exams but I’m now guessing you mean externally marked.
I may persuade him to do one or two single BTECs mixed with an A level. I need to look into how these are assessed too.
One of my friends daughters is doing a level 3 business BTEC and she thinks it is fantastic. Her daughter never flourished with an exam style education but is now predicted high enough grades to go to a good middle ranking University.

I’m liking the idea more and more, despite some describing them as ‘piss easy’.

[VelvetPineapple]

You don’t have to score a Distinction in every BTEC unit to get a Distinction overall. There’s some leeway as long as you pass every unit.

You’re supported to complete assessed work in the classroom over a period of years and you have multiple attempts to get it right. Unlike A level where you only practise in the classroom, the entire grade hinges on your performance on the exam day and you only get one crack at it.

It’s easy to identify a failing student early and put support in place. Unlike A level where failing students often don’t get picked up until they fail the exam at the very end, by which point it’s too late.

The school/college has a choice of units (so they can pick the easiest ones). Unlike A level where there’s one syllabus and they have no control over it.

If you’re at a FE college they will make sure you pass because the government only funds your place if you pass. Unlike A level where they get paid regardless of what grade you score. They need the money for every student so they make sure that every student passes. Schools are different obviously.

[VelvetPineapple]

I’m liking the idea more and more, despite some describing them as ‘piss easy’

Piss easy is a good thing for the student. Compared to A level, a BTEC student will get a higher grade with less stress, get into university more easily, and have more opportunities for their future. I’ve seen A level students who could easily have scored top grades at BTEC scoring Bs and Cs at A level. And BTEC students who would barely score Ds and Es at A level were scoring the top Distinction grades at BTEC. Exams were introduced into BTEC precisely because they were too easy and it was thought necessary to bring them more in line with A levels. They are still ridiculously easy in comparison though.

[unexpectedgifts]

My eldest son did superbly at GCSEs, he started 6th form studying Maths, Applied Maths, Physics and IT.

He struggled, not with the content but with the teaching methods and his teachers.

He dropped out and found a good course doing level 3 BTEC in computing.

He did so well, achieved distinctions, he loved the teaching methods and assessment process.

But, and it's a sad but, he wasn't able to apply for the Russell Group university he wanted as they only consider A levels for the course he wanted to take. Despite him having the points they required.

[Fazackerley]

They are 'piss easy' compared to A levels if you are the kind of person who doesn't cope with exams very well but works hard and is good at coursework.

It's not THAT easy to get a distinction*

DD is doing a mixture of both a levels and Btec

The work at uni is much more like a detailed BTEC than an A level tbh - lots of coursework as well as some exams.

Yes, she will get a D in her BTEC and it is extremely unlikely she would have got an A in the same subject at A level, but so what? The unis she's applied to don't care - she's not looking at top RG unis although I do know several kids who have done the Extended Diploma with triple distinction star who have ended up at RG unis.

[Fazackerley]

The school/college has a choice of units (so they can pick the easiest ones)

although plenty of unis want you to to list the units that you took and often specify certain ones that are more rigorous.

[TeenTimesTwo]

Velvet How up to date is your info? The rules on assistance on BTECs have tightened up a lot in the past 4 years. You don't get 'multiple opportunities' any more.

[GaribaldiGirl]

This is all really helpful BTW. Thanks so much everyone.

[VelvetPineapple]

Velvet How up to date is your info? The rules on assistance on BTECs have tightened up a lot in the past 4 years. You don't get 'multiple opportunities' any more

I last taught BTEC in 2017. Friends still teach it and apparently nothing has changed. “Officially” you don’t get multiple opportunities any more. But the fact is that a lot of students wouldn’t pass if they didn’t get multiple opportunities and the college needs them to pass in order to get the government funding. So teachers were told to throw away unsuccessful attempts and mark the final successful attempt as if it was the first attempt. If necessary we gave the students the correct answers to copy out.

All that counts is what’s in the coursework folder at the end of the day. Nobody knows what happens in the classroom. We only paid lip service to the “rules”. Our priority was to ensure every student passed so the college received the money for every student so it could pay the bills.

[GaribaldiGirl]

That’s not good, basically it’s cheating.

[TapasForTwo]

How do BTEC students cope with university exams if they would have struggled with A level exams?

[Fazackerley]

Not sure - on the uni course dd is doing exams are only part of the overall mark (like btecs) so there is less pressure than a levels when the exams are all or nothing.

[Fazackerley]

Ok, well dd hasn't had any of that. Can't speak for the rest of her class. I don't think kids that go to uni with Btecs struggle particularly, probably because they tend to be accepted as entry to more vocational courses anyway.

[Fazackerley]

Meant to add she is doing 2 a levels as well and predicted Bs, and she wouldn't say her btec has been easier just different

[bruffin]

He definitely isn’t a Russell group candidate but I’d like to think he’ll go to university
Dd is at a Russell Group uni with a btec. She got 3 D*s IN health and social care.

Her course has just one exam in the first year and that is it for the whole course.

[VelvetPineapple]

That’s not good, basically it’s cheating

GaribaldiGirl it’s one of the main reasons I quit teaching in the FE sector, because it was about £ and not about actually teaching. I was required to do things that went against my professional standards because my boss said we need the funding therefore all BTEC students must pass even if they’re not capable. It was unfair on the students who were capable when others were being boosted to the same level. And many of the “boosted” students subsequently failed at university, which was also unfair on them.