Renting in catchment area and owning outside it

[CauliflowerBalti]

We are moving to the catchment area of my son’s current primary school in order for him to continue his education with his peers at the secondary school within that area.

We were hoping to move there in 5 years’ time when I will have a lump of money to put into a mortgage, but the secondary school is getting more and more oversubscribed. The time apparently is now.

His application needs to be in by the end of October, so it’s all happening rather fast. I have no intention of committing fraud. We are moving to live there for beyond his education years. But renting for at least a year, if not more.

I do not want to sell the home we live in now. My husband and I had a big disagreement about moving at the start of the year. He wanted to, I didn’t. We stayed, and did some lovely renovations. This is a lovely house. I don’t want to leave it yet - but I will.

I want to rent it out for a decade or so, then gift it to my son. That’s my plan.

Does anyone have any idea how I can prove to the LA that I’m not cheating my way in? It’s so important to my son that he stays with his peers. He’s a very anxious soul. We need to move. But we’ve left it late. I may not have found a tenant for here by 31 October. I may still be paying council tax in two places. It worries me. I rang the LA to ask, and was totally honest, and she was very lovely and said I just needed to prove that my rented house is my permanent and only home. I will easily be able to do that - it will be. But what if I end up under the nose of someone less tolerant?

Has anyone experienced this?

[meditrina]

" How can the LA give a place based on House A, when DS is not physically living there?"

When there are two addresses, it is up to the LEA to determine which is the valid one for admissions purposes. parents can go to appeal if they do not think the LEA has acted correctly. But given the number which specify that it will be the owned address that is used, people shouid be realistic about chances of success.

If it is a temporary move because the owned property is uninhabitable, then a conversation with a manager in Admissions (not necessarily whoever picks up the phone) wouid be worthwhile to determine which address to use, and get the decision in writing

Moves from owned to rental much closer to more desirable school are very likely to be scrutinised. Especially if the rental is let out every year to families with DC of admission age.

[mpsw]

IIRC the only group of people for whom future intention to move is acceptable for Admissions are Forces families, when the move is evidenced by posting order or CO's letter.

[QGMum]

I think OP is overly worried about her dc moving to secondary school without peers. Most dc I know make new friends at secondary school and don’t stick with their primary school friends. Plenty of dc move to schools where they know no one and do just fine.

What’s so wrong with just staying put?

[admission]

Only having a 6 month rent in the house you will be applying from is going to raise "red flags" and especially so if it is near a school that is oversubscribed. Near me there is a primary school which is always over subscribed with a row of small cottages opposite. If anybody applies for a place from any of these cottages then this is automatically "red-flagged" at the LA who have had plenty of past experience of renting to get a school place in these cottages.One estate agent even boasts that they are rented out for this purpose but now the application is rarely successful!
I would definitely consider extending the rental period till 12 months if at all possible because it gives more confidence to the LA that this genuine.
It is questionable which of having the house up for sale on October 31st and having it rented out for at least a twelve month period is going to be more acceptable to the LA. I would suspect it is a long rental period but that would only be a guess.

[CauliflowerBalti]

I hadn’t considered they might prefer it long term rented to for sale. Hmmm.

I live nowhere near Derby or any of the schools/catchments mentioned!

It’s important to me that he moves up with his friends as he suffers from separation anxiety - always has.

I have a choose of two secondaries where I live now, for some reason - one outstanding, one requiring improvement. The school he would like to attend is outstanding.

I do appreciate all the points of view - thank you.

[CauliflowerBalti]

Oh, and the house isn’t a hot rental for schools. There are never many houses up for rent in the village - there are just 6 at the moment. The previous tenant of the house we are moving to didn’t have children, the owner inhabited before that.

[Iamagreyhoundhearmeroar]

What a coincidence that the one he’d like to attend is the one out of three which happens to be outstanding.
I really hope you don’t get burnt by this; his anxiety won’t be helped by being removed from school a couple of weeks into the first term, if you get that far.

[CauliflowerBalti]

Two of the three are outstanding.

But honestly. I’m fairly sure I’m not the only person in the world that has ever moved into an area specifically because of the schools. If I’d moved 5 years ago it would be seen as canny. All I can say is, the infant and junior are both outstanding schools, the secondary never was until last inspection, and I didn’t have a problem at all getting my son a place at them. I should have been more on the ball. I wasn’t.

[titchy]

I’m fairly sure I’m not the only person in the world that has ever moved into an area specifically because of the schools.

Sigh. Of course you're not. And it's perfectly legitimate. But other people actually sell the previous home. Keeping it and renting elsewhere is cheating 101.

[CauliflowerBalti]

And honestly - he won’t be removed from school in the early weeks of school. He’ll either get in or he won’t. There will be no lies on any admissions forms, full disclosure of everything, they’ll buy it or they won’t. We’ll live in the rented house. We’ve started looking at houses. We might have an offer in by then. We might not. We’ll have no problem providing any documents they need to prove where we live. They will admit him or they won’t. There’ll be no grounds to evict him. It’s fine being disapproving but spiteful scaremongering isn’t necessary.

[CauliflowerBalti]

I’ve said at least a million times now we don’t intend to rent for long at all. Ideally only for the initial 6 months. It’s a stepping stone. With a fair wind behind us we’ll own a house in catchment by decisions in March - and I know the school admits people in that scenario (rent to own).

I dunno. Is it cheating? I honestly don’t think so. It’s playing by the rules of the whole system as far as I can tell. I will be brutally honest on my admission form. We shall see.

[MissWimpyDimple]

It's cheating because you are cheating someone else out of a place. Your son getting a place via your "plan" costs someone else. It's as simply as that.

[stressedtiredbuthappy]

Ridiculous comments from people I'm afraid.
Good luck to you op who honestly wouldn't go all out to get the best for their own children?

[admission]

You are not doing anything wrong, it is all perfectly legitimate. The problem is that others can and will see the "other side" and assume that you are cheating, especially if their child did not get a place at the school.
As you say, be totally open with the LA, make sure that in any conversation that you have with them that you either get them to confirm in writing or that you write saying "thank you for the conversation, this is what I understood you to say". That at least gives you a time line of conversations which give you more credibility if there comes a time when the LA is questioning the validity of the address used.

[egdehsdrawkcab]

OP, just to say, I agree with you entirely. Having been accused the fraud myself I get how frustrating this situation is - all I can say is that I now understand the reason for the rules, the cut off dates, the scrutiny etc. the LA have a hard job allocating places and situations like this just complicate things. The LA need some parameters to work within.

[PanelChair]

You’ve already been given plenty of good advice, although you seem somewhat reluctant to take it.

The simple answer to “what do I need to do, to convince the LEA ...” is to get their requirements in writing and then follow them. Some LEAs will (for example) expect you to sell your old house, while others will accept a long term rental agreement on it, so it’s important to be clear about what’s required.

On a separate point, if you have evidence from a health care professional of your child’s separation anxiety, that may place you in the medical/social category for admissions (if this school has one) and so higher up the oversubscription criteria.

[nononsene]

Look, whether or not you agree with the posters here or not what it boils down to is what's more important to you.

Keeping your house and running the risk of having a place taken away from your son because the local authority have had to crack down on admissions, or making absolutely sure your son gets a place in the desired school.

FWIW we were in a very similar position and took the sell the house and buy in catchment option. We really didn't want to sell our house as we had spent over a decade renovating it. I really thought we would miss the house, but we don't miss it at all in fact I really wish we had bitten the bullet and moved into catchment earlier.

[PanelChair]

Exactly. And another thing to remember is that, because they have to be as fair and objective as possible and open to scrutiny at appeal, admission arrangements are very much about what you do, not what you say you intend to do. That's why (depending to some extent on the requirements in each LEA about proof of address and changing address) renting in catchment while hanging onto a home elsewhere can be problematic. It's all very well someone saying that they intend to stay in the area indefinitely and won't be going back to the house they own elsewhere but, to someone sitting in the town hall, that looks just the same as someone who's rented a bedsit in the catchment of Leafy Comp for 6 months before heading back to their home on the other side of town. Hence some LEAs wanting evidence that the former house is being sold etc.

[cantkeepawayforever]

And honestly - he won’t be removed from school in the early weeks of school. He’ll either get in or he won’t.

It isn't as simple as that. IME, there seem to be 3 points when admissions fraud, or behaviour which looks like admissions fraud, are picked up:

1. On application, or while applications are scrutinised. This is becoming more common, as councils get more aware of it.
   

However, there are two more:

1. On the public allocation of places. Parents not getting their child in to the desired school take a look at the children who have got in, and say 'Hmm, that doesn't look quite right, because I know...' and they ring the local authority, who withdraw the place.
   

1. On arrival at secondary, or during the first term. This is often by an extension of 2, but it can be that addresses shared by primary schools or the admissions authority with the secondary school don't match the actual address on starting, or various other red flags 'behind the scenes' (councils are definitely more canny about checking things like ending of short term rentals near the school between allocation and arrival etc).
   

Obviously, nobody 'sees' the first one - the place is simply not allocated. Both 2 and 3 are very visible, and thus I very am aware that both happen, even to families who successfully get through the application and allocation stage.

[Tummytuckrequired]

In the borough of Richmond - the LEA literature is explicit that if you own and rent a property simultaneously then they always take the address of the property you own. Richmond was in the Evening Standard about 5 years as being the borough with the highest number of misleading applications compared to any other in London. (Probably due to the good variety of secondary and primary schools). They are so stringent that expect you to be renting a minimum of 6 months prior to the application and for at least 1 year afterwards. I do know of children having school places withdrawn even during the first couple of months of the start of the year. In fact we moved from Teddington (sold house) and moved to another area within the Richmond borough (bought house) to follow the catchment area and we had the Dept of Education phone us up to verify we had sold our previous property etc and we had to provide the deeds etc confirming of the sale and purchase of the properties. i would not risk it.

[Leesa65]

People like you really annoy me.

[prh47bridge]

And honestly - he won’t be removed from school in the early weeks of school. He’ll either get in or he won’t

That simply is not true. If the local authority conclude that your application was fraudulent or deliberately misleading the place can be withdrawn after your child starts at the school. Being open and giving full disclosure is no guarantee. The local authority can still change its mind. I've seen it happen.

[Iamagreyhoundhearmeroar]

Op’s insistence that honestly, he won’t be removed from school in the early weeks shows that in common with most people who think they’re the first to have thought of this brilliant wheeze; she hasn’t the remotest clue how the system actually works.
Her poor kid will be the one paying the price, unfortunately.

[PanelChair]

And honestly - he won’t be removed from school in the early weeks of school. He’ll either get in or he won’t

Another one saying don't be so complacent. In many LEAs there are so many fraudulent applications that they are taking a very hard line, in order to send signals to anyone else contemplating it.

[Tummytuckrequired]

You are setting your son up for an enormous disappointment
*either by promising him a place and not delivering upon it
*even worse if you have bought the uniform and then get kicked into or touch by having it withdrawn the week before (I know of this happening)

• or the aboslute worst scenario of having your child pulled from the school in the first couple of months.
  
  The start of secondary school is an extremely challenging and emotionally sensitive time for all children. Not only are you teaching your son to lie to get what he wants but you are running the risk of not having some control over what schools you would like him to attend in your actual home address catchment.
  
  If you get rumbled (which I am confident you will be - as I said they expect you living at the address for probably the entire duration of year 7 at a minimum) then LEA will pull him from the school and send him wherever there is a place available (which will probably be the failing school far away - as they will be the only ones with spaces).
  
  Don't risk this and think about what life lessons you are teaching your son.