Winchester

[Globaliser]

I’m slightly puzzled by Winchester, and would like some help. It’s one of the schools we are considering for our son. The school has always has a very strong academic reputation. It shares this with a handful of other schools, including St Paul’s, Westminster, KCS Wimbledon, Eton and a few others. There is a lot to like about the school. But am I right in thinking that there has been very little investment in the school over a long period of time? On a tour, I don’t recall being shown the facilities you would expect to see (classrooms, indoor/ outdoor sports facilities, theatres and music schools in particular), only a scruffy school hall and the beautiful ancient buildings. There are no photos of these facilities on the website. The boarding house I saw had a wonderful housemaster, but the boys were crammed into very old fashioned dormitories, and had to do prep in some very cramped commonrooms. Other boarding schools (certainly Eton, Harrow and Radley) offer a shared room in the first and possibly second year, and then your own room thereafter, if not your own room throughout. It does look as if no money has been spent on the school at all for some time.

It’s possible to make a virtue out of a necessity, and say that it’s more fun in a dormitory, or that money can be spent on better projects than flashy new facilities, or that boys are better off without the latest IT, but that doesn’t really wash here. Winchester is producing similar results to other super selective schools, and charges almost identical fees, and shares with some of them a beautiful location, some historic buildings and hundreds of years of scholarship. However they appear to have upped their game as well as their fees considerably, renovating the old Victorian buildings and rebuilding the postwar buildings, and adding world class sports and drama facilities. Unless I’ve missed something, Winchester hasn’t. Is this a case of long term mismanagement, and if so, is the new and Headmaster the right person to make some fairly rapid changes? I really liked the school, but I’m reluctant to spend a heat deal of money on what look to be second rate facilities.

[Wornthreads]

What decent school would be complete without the quintessential 'crusty' with cashmere sweater, replete with holey elbows and silk/wool blended tweed (with suede patches to cover up the holey parts). Ideally, added into the mix are a few European Royal children. Most of these schools would expect a few of these types kicking around. However, in order to find out if the other schools we're considering for DS are indeed inflicted with the downright wealthy (or not), I've started a new thread - Eton College or Harrow School 2019. Hope you'll all have something to say about it and there's no need to restrict your views to these two schoools!

[happygardening]

Wornthreads please put my comment about the parents wealth in context:
"has the wealthiest parents of any school but most are scruffy and friendly but most drop and run and seem to attend the few compulsory events reluctantly!"
I couldn't care less about the other parents but to my surprise I discovered over the years that some feel this matters especially the number social events etc.
"All I would say is your summary crystallises many of the things we believed to be the case about Winchester which will either excite or repel prospective parents."
This is a very sensible comments I have always tried to give an honest appraisal of the school because I know it doesn't appeal to all. No criticism is intended of those it does or doesn't appeal too but its definitely not everyones cup of tea.

[Wornthreads]

Having read the most recent post by happy, I just wanted to hop back onto this thread to say our DS was born prematurely, is very slight in stature, is quietly spoken, very conservative and considerate, a ‘younger’ than most of his peer group. Not exactly sure what a ‘trampler’ is but if it’s an alpha, gung-ho, shouty, rah - rah type. That’s not him. Also, not sure what wealthy parents has to do with choosing a school.

All I would say is your summary crystallises many of the things we believed to be the case about Winchester which will either excite or repel prospective parents.

I’m genuinely pleased your DS had a great time. I’m equally convinced that it’s not a place for our DS or our family (wealth or no wealth)🤣💰💰

[peteneras]

Thanks for the update Wornthreads - I've previously seen your plea for help when your DS was still awaiting Eton but felt disinclined to respond because I felt it unethical to in a thread that is specifically Winchester. Congratulations for an Eton offer!

And to the OP, Globaliser, - in fact, to the both of you - to all intents and purposes, there's only one School that matters. The School that parents are prepared to kill for a place for their sons to go there!

Please start another thread to direct the discussion away from specifically Winchester but not excluding it in the new thread so that other parents may feel more comfortable in writing about other schools.

[happygardening]

My DS2 left Winchester in 2016 before the new head started but this is my opinion:
"The Head Master' event earlier this year at Wincoll, we were very concerned about the atmosphere and what seemed to be a personality clash between the H.M and a lady who was responsible for Wincoll's P.R/Marketing"
We attended the June open day for prospective pupils (probably 11 years ago) I was unimpressed with the head frankly it was so long ago I am unable to remember why but I know I was unimpressed. My DS tells me the power lies with the deputy head (I don't think he's called this but I cant remember what his title is) and of course the house masters.
"the theatre is extremely tired and very uncomfortable"
Yup I agree and I remember thinking at the above open day that many of the facilities looked tired. We came away from the open day totally underwhelmed (unlike our visit to SPS), everything seemed disorganised and I couldn't work out what the place was all about. I may not have taken our interest in the school any further if we hadn't already arranged to meet three potential HM's a week later and it seemed rude to cancel.
"Wincoll does not seem to have a very cohesive approach to parents."
I think Winchester has historically kept parents at arms length. House masters take their role of being loco parentis very seriously and there aren't numerous social functions, endless letter home and fortnightly progress updates. I personally like this but if you don't Winchester may not be for you
The next 12 months following the open day we returned to the school 5 times whilst trying to choose an HM and we gradually began to see what the school is about and what IMO (Ive worked in boarding schools so think I'm talking from some experience) makes it different. We met the boys and talked to staff I asked lots of difficult questions, things that were concerning me, DS2 then got a place and place at SPS, we carried on debating which to choose. By the end of yr 7 we still hadn't really had up out mind then we were called for an interview with the then head (every boy with a place had one). We went rather reluctantly we were leaning towards SPS (we had no problem seeing what that was about), we arrived on a warm summer afternoon, we ate lunch in a pub by the schooling, we were struck with the tranquil atmosphere around the school, we watched the boys going about their everyday lives there was something about I liked a something that I can't put into words, something unique. We met the head he was nothing like the man we'd seen at the open day, I really liked him, he talked about my DS as if he genuinely knew him, he talked about music (my DS was then as musical as a paving stone prep school music lessons had given him the impression that he was "not musical"), he told DS that no one is "not musical". It was poor teaching that made him think like this. He talked about the school, he said it wasn't a place for "tramplers" and if that was what we wanted we should choose somewhere else (I wondered if he knew we had a place at SPS!). On the dash board on our car was a letter to Winchester declining the place I left the interview looked at my DS and knew he didn't want to attend a school for "tramplers" and put it in the bin.
We never regretted our decision, Winchester is (or should I say was I cant comment on it now) the atmosphere there is unique, the camaraderie amongst the boys is special, our HM was amazing, just towards the end of our five years I was driving my DS back for the last term, asked if you had your time again would you make the same decisions. Typical of him there was along pause before he answered,
"Well" silence I gripped the steering wheel, thought oh God this is where he tells he how damage he is by boarding.
"Yes I would".
The school is or really I should say was very liberal and informal, the boys are relaxed and informal with the staff, my DS said physical bullying was very much frowned upon by the boys so very rarely occurred, I suspect there is quite a lot of "banter" (some may call it bullying), Wykehamists are very quick with there words when they want to be. The school was/is unashamedly intellectual there was/is a daily Div lessons, when DS was there IGCSE history and English Lit was not offered but both subjects were studied in great depth my non reading DS developed a love of literature through this, there was/is no drama in the curriculum, no compulsory sport after the first 1/2 term uniform policy was poorly enforced and there was no compulsory wearing of branded track suits at sports events in fact the boys seemed to revel in looking as scruffy as possible. I like this.
Most of the parents seem happy there, many have 2 3 or 4 boys there, most I think like the hands off approach I hate school social functions, I was once reliably informed by someone seriously in the know that it has the wealthiest parents of any school but most are scruffy and friendly but most drop and run and seem to attend the few compulsory events reluctantly!
There are normal families there but it definitely suits lone wolfs and eccentrics I happily describe us an eccentric family but I met families at Winchester who made us look positively middle of the road and conventional! Its not for everyone or all boys, I know some who were not happy there in particular those who struggled academically, some disked the large amount of non examined curriculum feeling it was pointless and I know quite a few felt under significant pressure to do very well academically although this pressure may have come from home as much as the school.
I hope this helps. Just to add my "non musical" DS is now a music loving opera attending young man.

[Wornthreads]

Hi Globaliser,

Yes, heres the latest update.

D.S has now been offered a place at E and DS has decided W is not for him. He will go to either E or H and he'll make the final decision this term.

Actually, now he's in a position to begin making decisions, I have been thinking about my earlier comments about facilities and think that when I wrote my last post, the fact our DS choices were restricted influenced it's tone.

Now DS has choices, I am able to be slightly more candid.

DS is academic, sporty and musical. I don't know what he'll be inspired by at his senior school or what he'll do in later life. However, given the schools all charge the same(ish) amounts, and one of his options has the same sort of leavers destinations (% of oxbridge places) as W, I don't understand why any parent would choose a school with fewer facilities. I'm sure there's a perfectly good reason, but I genuinely don't know what it is.

Thankfully, everyone has their own criteria for selecting schools. Our DS has worked really hard and we're very proud of him and he'll have the final say. My guess is he'll probably interact with the boys from Wincoll through his sport, music or both, and I'm sure they'll all get along very well.

Ultimately, all three schools are unbelievably good and it boils down to personal preference.

Whilst a school isn't all about the facilities, to deliberately select a school without some of the basic equipment (decent WIFI) and comfort levels (Dorms), seems quite odd. Especially, when it's the same price!

Anyway, it's a decision we no longer need to worry about.

Not sure how much that update helped anyone, but as you asked, I have answered.

[Globaliser]

Are you in a position to update us Wornthreads?

[Wornthreads]

I was hoping this thread would accurately describe the real positives (and negatives) of all the environments under consideration. Our DS has been offered a place at Wincol to start in Sept 2019, has an offer from Harrow and is on the waiting list at Eton. We feel we are having to make decisions about schools without really knowing very much about them (although Harrow have been very accommodating and much more engaging than the other two). Having been to a 'Meet The Head Master' event earlier this year at Wincoll, we were very concerned about the atmosphere and what seemed to be a personality clash between the H.M and a lady who was responsible for Wincoll's P.R/Marketing. When a prospective parent asked about the WIFI policy, the H.M said that's easy to answer, the WIFI is so bad here you don't need to concern yourself with it (not an answer I was expecting, although judging by the reaction in the hall apparently true). The H.M kept asking the P.R lady (in front of the hall full of parents), 'Was it O.K for me to say that' and 'Was that comment on Message' e.t.c. He referred to William of Wykham as four by two bee, which I thought was quite extraordinary. It's fair to say we didn't understand his sense of humour and we were extremely puzzled by the leadership style. The music block at Wincoll is fabulous and I've seen the plans for the new facilities being built over the next few years, which seem to be great. However, the theatre is extremely tired and very uncomfortable (we attended a play there with friends who's D.S is a collager). For me, our decision should be about the culture and best fit for our D.S, not flashy equipment (which Wincoll does not seem to have). We have essentially got no idea about Eton as parents seem to be excluded until a place is offered. Harrow seems very engaging, warm and friendly, whereas Wincoll does not seem to have a very cohesive approach to parents. Please do help us to get to grips with this, as my wife and I really do need some help (and we cannot be the only parents in this position).

Please can anyone with direct experience of these places give the positives that we have either misinterpreted or do not know about. There is no need for anyone to jump on my comments and defend one place or the other, that's not what this is about.

Please, help!

[Globaliser]

I should say I am not intending in any way to start the (pointless) debate as to which is best here. All I can say, from my point of view as a prospective parent, is that they are both outstanding schools.

[Globaliser]

I've made some further enquiries about Winchester. Almost everything I have heard is extremely positive, and it is clear that people think of it as an outstanding school. The only criticisms I have heard are about the facilities, which appear to coincide with mine. I'm left with the impression that this is being addressed. It is interesting to see how often when discussing it, it is compared to Eton, rather than any other school, favourably in some respects, and unfavourably in others. It appears that whether deliberately or not, the two schools benchmark each other, against each other, notwithstanding their differences.

[semideponent]

Globaliser, I'm confused. This all seems very hypothetical - even speculative - and I don't understand why even if your imaginings were close to correct you would necessarily be sucked into being part of the body of opinion trying to stop changes. Who says such a group would be effective anyway?

My observation is that I'd care about facilities only insofar as they contributed to DS's happiness and education: frankly I don't think they make much difference, and when they do, they're as likely to be old (very old, in fact) as they are to be new. It's human beings who teach DS and human beings who make him smile. The cats do their bit too.

[Globaliser]

To be clear, [i]What would concern me was if the new head wanted to make some changes, and there was a body of opinion trying to stop them[/i] was speculation on my part based on a response on here, but please tell me if that is or is not the the case, because I don't want to be part of something like that.

[Globaliser]

These are indeed my themes! Tell me if I'm wrong. It's what has struck me as a prospective parent. I have no idea why this leads you to impute some other motive, or what that motive might be!

[Wincollparent]

Indeed Gruach there is a not so subtle leitmotif to the OP's posts

Is this a case of long term mismanagement, and if so, is the new and Headmaster the right person to make some fairly rapid changes?

that Winchester has not modernised its facilities and has fallen behind the others, and is possibly two boarding houses too small, perhaps because of the old head and a semi-detached governing head.

a new head can transform the fortunes of a school. Is the new head someone who is going to gently nudge a venerable and distinguished institution that has fallen behind its competitors into the 21st century?

I note that the new head appears to be trying to modernise the school

and as you pointed out

What would concern me was if the new head wanted to make some changes, and there was a body of opinion trying to stop them.

I also can't help but notice 'the very nice housemaster but boarding house needing renovation / expansion ' theme.

[Gruach]

What would concern me was if the new head wanted to make some changes, and there was a body of opinion trying to stop them.

Ohhhh ...

[happygardening]

"The other schools I've mentioned have all made significant changes in recent years, either in academic terms, or to the facilities they provide, and now compete hard with each other in every respect - academic, sporting and in terms of facilities - and compete for the same/similar intake of boys. Winchester is clearly capable of comepeting and beating them in all those areas and I'm keen to explore whether the new head is likely to make those changes."
The point which OP you seem unable or unwilling to grasp is that for many Winchester's appeal is that its not like all the others!

[Wincollparent]

The3 this has already been suggested (tactfully) to the OP as the alternative to leaving Winchester out from the start (and thus giving this thread and their angst about the future of Winchester's facilities a rest).

HopeClearwater I imagine taking on the cost of the upkeep of those buildings would not be a popular diversion of state education funds but so true that the boys are very privileged at Winchester and other such historical schools.

[HopeClearwater]

My god.
Park just outside Winchester. Then take the walk through the water meadow up to the back of the college. The buildings and its grounds, especially the pitches which you can easily see from the walk, are stunningly beautiful and have a feeling of timelessness about them. Any boy going here is privileged practically beyond measure, as you could say about most of the public schools in this country. So wind your neck in about it being (or not being) the ‘right’ school for your boy and stop making so much spurious noise about your expectations.
Personally I’d turn it into a state school tomorrow if I could, along with all the rest of them, but that’s for another thread.

[The3]

I suggests the OP allows the selection process to narrow down her choices for her, and then does the weighing-up of options when she knows what offers her ds has in his hand.

[Wincollparent]

Globaliser if indeed you have no agenda you are going round in circles with this thread and therefore it seems pretty pointless to help your decision making.
You have two options, register your DS for the Winchester pretest or not. I can't see why you would want to bother because of your priorities and other possibilities that are more suitable with those priorities but obviously it is your decision.
You can clearly ask Winchester what their plans are for whatever matters to you the most eg renovating a particular boarding house. They could give you information now or perhaps after the results of the pretests when your choices are more defined.
Of course if Winchester is your DS's only successful pretest and he/ you don't have the choice of Eton or St Paul's or whatever is more competitive facility-wise then that will be a dilemma for you.

[Globaliser]

There really is no hidden agenda. I'm a prospective parent who has viewed all the schools mentioned above at roughly the same time. If we are in the fortunate position of being able to decide between some or all of the schools I mentioned, I'd like to make what is an important decision on the most informed basis possible, and this is one of the sources of information. I have no interest in starting or reading a Peternas v HG thread, because with respect to those posters, they give a poor impression of their respective schools during the argument as to which is best. My view (with which you are free to disagree) is that Winchester has a reputation equal to St Paul's, Westminster, Eton and KCS, but having visited them, and also Harrow and Radley, Winchester appeared to have fallen behind the others in terms of its boarding facilities and some other facilities. If DP and I (who both boarded in scruffy old Victorian boarding houses) take that view, its likely that others will too, and that may have an effect on the reputation and quality of the intake of the school. Because I liked the school and housemaster very much, I was looking to see if my impression was right or not. The other thread I linked to suggests to that others hold the same view and have held that view for some time. I was then interested to find out if the new head was likely to make some changes. I have now discovered that he has made some very positive changes already. This is helpful information and positive news. I'm not stupid, and I'm not going to choose a school on the basis of a brand new classroom block, or rowing lake, but equally, I'm not going to choose it on the basis of only being good for quirky boys or it being no good at sport. The other schools I've mentioned have all made significant changes in recent years, either in academic terms, or to the facilities they provide, and now compete hard with each other in every respect - academic, sporting and in terms of facilities - and compete for the same/similar intake of boys. Winchester is clearly capable of comepeting and beating them in all those areas and I'm keen to explore whether the new head is likely to make those changes.

I'm not sure what agenda there could be relating to the charge of heads - the new one is place as I understand it. What would concern me was if the new head wanted to make some changes, and there was a body of opinion trying to stop them.

[Wincollparent]

Dapplegrey if you have time worth reading the thread. The OP is aware of the facilities at Eton and other schools and should clearly leave well alone with Winchester. Despite this there appears to be an obsession for this school even though it does not fit their requirements. Alternatively there is an agenda in continuing this thread possibly relating to the change in headmasters at Winchester or they are a current parent trying to put pressure on the school.

[Dapplegrey]

Op - at Eton the boys have their own rooms from the start. There are no dorms.

[abear]

I am a current parent. DS1 has been at Wincol for 3 years and we are very happy with it. So much so that we are crossing our fingers that DS2 will get a positive response following his pre test any day now.

The facilities and subjects on offer have never given us cause for concern. The boys seem happy with the boarding accommodation in DS1's house at least. I think sharing a room in the first two years helped prevent loneliness and improved friendships and tolerance amongst the boys. The system of doing toy time / prep together in their cubicles rather than alone in their rooms instilled a good work routine so that as DS1 has got older he now just works those hours each evening out of habit. I think working in that supervised way for the first two years was entirely positive whilst the maturity to work alone developed.

The new sports centre will be a great asset to the school and is needed in today's world. IT systems have improved with WiFi across the school and in the houses which wasn't the case in our first year at the school. I expect the laptops for all policy from day one is also positive but DS1 also benefitted from not having one for the first year and a bit as was the norm at that time as he needed to (and still does), work on writing things out by hand as is required in exams.

I don't imagine the curriculum developing to offer more subjects at exam level as I believe the school focuses on doing the basic academic subjects well and so much more is covered in Div throughout a boys life at the school, which is one of the unique characteristics that drew us to the school in the first place.

[Globaliser]

If it’s possibe to move the discussion on, looking at the website, I note that the new head appears to be trying to modernise the school by introducing sports scholarships, and laptops for all new pupils, amongst other things. This is encouraging. Can any current parents tell me if there are other changes proposed, for example in relation to the quality of the boarding accommodation, or to the broadening of the curriculum?