Worried we made the wrong choice about grammar school

[catweasel44]

DS1 started the local grammar school in September.

He wasn't heavily tutored, although he did have one for half an hour a week in year 5 (with no extra homework). It shouldn't be relevant but I feel it is.

He is very bright, very capable but not very motivated. We worried about sending him more due to attitude than anything else but decided that the structure and expectations might make a difference.

His half term report was OK - not struggling with the work but organisation and effort need improvement.

However this weekend he's been miserable. He forgot he needed to read a book, he got a detention last week for forgetting his homework again (although he had done it).

He says he feels like he is letting himself down.

Is this normal? We are trying to be as supportive as we can and help him with organisation etc but I worry that we are expecting too much, and he would have been happier bobbling along at the other school.

I think I'm hoping you will come along and say everyone feels like this in their first term.

[BertrandRussell]

"I'm sure all schools are under pressure but the grammars results are significantly higher than the comps, 76 percent A/A stars in all subjects compared to 5 A to Cs for 50 percent of the comp kids"

Any guesses why that might be?

[mountford100]

istory teacher teaching science GCSE and Head at both comps resigned last year. I'm not too bothered about this but after 4 Heads at their primary I very much appreciate the stability the grammar offers.

Yes exactly , as i said its reassuring my girls go to a school that puts girls in to detention for what in most schools would be nothing !

[MumTryingHerBest]

mountford100 that puts girls in to detention for what in most schools would be nothing

I doubt you would have sufficient insight into reasons for detention "at most school" to make that claim, tbh.

[Scabbersley]

How on earth would you know that?!

Fwiw our comp is absolutely draconian about behaviour and uniform. We don't live in a grammar area (thank god) so not sure if that makes a difference

[BubblesBuddy]

Do not assume that all grammar school children are hard working or motivated. It is plainly obvious that not all of them are. Some cannot cope and do not want to cope.They do not feel happy with their school and quite a few will have been tutored to the ends of the earth to get there.

I do notice that some children leave home at 7 am to get to a grammar school so presumably are late back in the evening. This seems a very long day and not conducive to a happy child. What about after school activities, a long journey home and then homework? Then we wonder why they are not happy? Or they are tired? What a surprise. They cannot be fulfilled or relaxxed.

Also, my children spent less time on homework but did a huge amount of extra curricular activity. House plays, music, sport, dance, drama, debating and more. They had a very enriched school life! One reason we have children who cannot cope is that they are not allowed to enjoy all a school should offer. Everyone judges a school by results but what you need are motivated children who get to have a go at lots of things. School should excite them with possibilities. If it is all about boring homework it really is not education that serves the children well or indeed our country.

As for having photos to show your achievements - absolutely not! It is just pandering to the "we do more with our lives" parents. That is a dreadful thing for a school to promote and nothing to do with education at all.

[FanDabbyFloozy]

My dd's grammar says 1.5 hrs a night for 3 subjects. In reality, it is rarely that. Teachers don't set homework, or the kids start in class or do it at lunch break together as a group. Or it's easier than expected and DD whizzes through it.

Lily - you've posted before.. I think the "feel" of a school counts for a lot and if it fits a child, they will only grumble about the workload. Is this grammar a London school? It sounds unusual in that it's 95% Asian.. Does your DD feel she fits in?

I expect the comps in your area are all full anyhow so why not tell her that, but secretly make a backup plan for y8 if needed?

[Lily2007]

Mum I find the last point on your post odd/rude - you could equally be wrong - and I have know idea why you have quoted the bottom quote, that is fact. I don't agree with some of what you are saying but each to their own and I'll leave you to disagree.

[MumTryingHerBest]

Mum I find the last point on your post odd/rude

Which is odd because I agreed with you and reposted something you had stated to demonstrate why.

[Lily2007]

Thanks Fan - She's one of only 3 white girls, yes its one of the London ones. The Asian girls are nice and friendly and she's made 5 good friends but issue is almost all the girls don't live locally to the school (they are the 7am start for 8am arrival) so meet ups are difficult due to both homework and location.

The comps will be full but they are massive - 240 per year so would guess not too long a wait as we are fairly close to two and two we would have got in if we had put them first. My son is going to one next year so she would move to that one where the two sensible friends are. In some ways it would be easier having two at the same school. I wouldn't say the lack of white kids is an issue, but the lack of local ones is a bit. They are lovely girls and one is local but clubs every night as exceptionally high achieving in sport. She's OK with staying at the moment but will be transferring her start y8 if not any happier by school year end. She was very happy first half term so its only been a month of constant moaning, she's seriously tired. Commute to comp is similar but 1.5 hours less homework a day so time to do more activities. However, suspect comp may ramp up homework in higher years as they also start GCSEs in y9.

I was like this at uni happy, sad then stuck it out and loved it so want to give it a year and lots of people said their child took up to a year to settle. Husband is very against her changing schools but will change her if needed.

[BitOutOfPractice]

I think it's normal for secondary of any kind to bf honest. It takes some kids a while to get their shit together

[Lily2007]

Mum I had read your post differently and I thought you were giving the last para as an example of why I was wrong as if I was lying about that when it's happened whereas you are using it to back up your previous points. That's the trouble with online.

I still think differently but can see were you are coming from.

[FanDabbyFloozy]

I hear you on the distances.. I have been quite stunned at the commutes my dd's classmates are doing, and same as your dd there are no opportunities to just chill out at the weekends together. I hope that changes as they get older, can travel independently and meet half way maybe. We live near-ish the school but no-one else does!

[MrsFezziwig]

karriecreamer
So, there may well be an "expectation" from the older teachers that the kids use their initiative, but I think society is changing and the modern reality, as seen from the more recently appointed teachers, is that there is less initiative being shown generally, so more intervention is needed.

If the teachers are intervening more, how will it work when the kids go to university? (which isn’t so far away if Y11). I don’t think the lecturers there will be telling them what to revise/work on.

(No axe to grind, just interested).

[karriecreamer]

If the teachers are intervening more, how will it work when the kids go to university?

Indeed, it does worry me! I think that the kids are getting mixed messages at the moment. When some teachers are micro-managing them and others are leaving them to it, it's hard for the kids to know what to do. I think it's better when it's one or the other as they know where they stand. As for Uni, I think most will realise it's a massive step-change and rise to it. But then again, I keep reading articles about Uni students expecting allowances to have more time for assignments they've not done on time, etc! Personally, I think each individual school should have their own policies about how much they spoon feed - at my son's school, even different teachers in the same departments have different attitudes, so if the department head can't impose a framework in their own dept, I don't know how whole school can be consistent.

[BubblesBuddy]

I think there is a tendency to only look at results and not the total wellbeing of the child.

Teachers having to constantly spoon feed is an obvious problem being stored up for university and beyond. So is spending hours on homework in Y7. Spending that amount of time suggests a degree of struggling.

As for 240 being huge - it’s not that bad! A very successful comp near me has 2100 children. 300 intake. It is so well organised children thrive and are successful. Size does not matter much at secondary. You need to see excellent teaching, high standards, lots of activities and opportunities, a good pool of friends and good results. Lots of London schools are capable of this.

[spurtions]

mountford it is completely non selective. Relatively affluent but entirely non selective. So not impossible

[DivisionBelle]

“I think they get less homework at grammar schools because they are expected to be self-motivated learners and do more on their own initiative!”

Not sure why anyone would expect that: self-motivation isn’t measured in the 11+ format.

And you do realise that in non 11+ areas, the high achieving kids are actually within the comps?

And middle and low attainers can also be very self motivated.

In the end many teen boys have a bad case of airheadedness. I have one who is a high achiever (at a comp) who would lose his ears, nose and arms if they weren’t attached.