Worried we made the wrong choice about grammar school

[catweasel44]

DS1 started the local grammar school in September.

He wasn't heavily tutored, although he did have one for half an hour a week in year 5 (with no extra homework). It shouldn't be relevant but I feel it is.

He is very bright, very capable but not very motivated. We worried about sending him more due to attitude than anything else but decided that the structure and expectations might make a difference.

His half term report was OK - not struggling with the work but organisation and effort need improvement.

However this weekend he's been miserable. He forgot he needed to read a book, he got a detention last week for forgetting his homework again (although he had done it).

He says he feels like he is letting himself down.

Is this normal? We are trying to be as supportive as we can and help him with organisation etc but I worry that we are expecting too much, and he would have been happier bobbling along at the other school.

I think I'm hoping you will come along and say everyone feels like this in their first term.

[DivisionBelle]

"This being when her 20 minute a night homework Comp friends are sweating over DDE grades at A level !"

Do, please, link to this school.......

[LostInLeics]

Mountford100 your comment about "comp friends" inevitably getting poor A Level grades is insulting and ignorant.

As a comp kid myself who got AAA and my first choice University, and as the mother of a comp kid who is also on the same trajectory, I can confidently tell you that your assumptions are completely wrong.

A bright, hard working, well supported child will do as well at a decent comp as they would have done at a selective school.I suppose that a not so bright, less self motivated child might do better at a grammar than they might have done at a comp, but please don't write off all comprehensives as dire and all the children who go there as doomed.

[mountford100]

Plenty of year 7 pupils only spend around 20-30 minutes on homework each night...

I guess i am very old fashioned but i find it very reassuring if a school puts a child in detention for wearing the wrong socks etc.
This means the school has limited serious issues to deal with..

At my 2 DDs grammar school nothing short of a note from a 'coronary' prevents missed homework's, initiating an after school 45 minute detention .
Both my DDs in year 9 and 12 respectively, have both acquired 10 after school detentions in their time there.

Like Stanley Fletcher from Porridge , the girls understand Detention to be an occupational hazzard !

[Ttbb]

If he has trouble with organisation it's good that he is in an environment where there are consequences for being disorganised or not putting in enough effort. He can't keep going like this forever and it's easier for him to change his ways nowvthan later on.

[mountford100]

Where did i say it was inevitable that comprehensive educated children would get poor A level results !

What i did say was a comment about deferred gratification evolving around the amount of homework the OPs daughter was getting.

This was to point out that the 'envy' regarding the limited homework expectations of the OPs daughter , will swing full circle the other way at 18 .

[mountford100]

Revolving around...

[Scabbersley]

Lilly, the envy will be on the other foot when your DD gets her first choice University . This being when her 20 minute a night homework Comp friends are sweating over DDE grades at A level

How insulting and ignorant. Our comp sends loads to Russell group every year. Dd in year 7 has about 30mins a night, occasionally an hour but very rarely. She is in top sets and doing very well.

[BertrandRussell]

"This being when her 20 minute a night homework Comp friends are sweating over DDE grades at A level"
Fuck me, there are some ghastly people in the world!!

[Scabbersley]

Yeah I agree Bertrand

Fwiw my oldest dd didn't learn fucking Chinese in year 7, didn't have hours of homework and yes, got DDE in her a level mocks. She's bloody lovely and is retaking different a levels and will go to a, probably, non Russell group uni. She'll have a great life. The snobbery on here is unfuckingbelievable

[CappuccinoCake]

The local comkp here is one of the "self quizzing" every night as homework ones. Far more homework and far more detentions for seemingly every thing than the grammar school.

[spurtions]

"This being when her 20 minute a night homework Comp friends are sweating over DDE grades at A level !"

Our comp had 90% A-B last year and nearly 60% A-A. Obviously a really rubbish comp, if my DC’s get those grades from the comp they’ll be crying all the way to a rubbish university. Don’t be so assumptive and snobby about comps.

[mountford100]

Bertrand with the greatest respect, if you have been spending at least 1.5 hrs a night on home work from year 7 on-wards you are more likely to achieve better grades.

Both my DDs have never spent less than 1.5 hrs a night on homework since starting secondary school. (disclaimer with the exception of a couple of months ago when no 2 tried to get away with doing 20 minutes worth and quite rightly got taken to task ).

I posted about that...

I think is because i used grammar school if i had said my children went to a comprehensive , there would have been no outrage for suggesting more homework = better grades.

Cappuccino you are quite right i know of some high achieving 'comprehensive' schools that expect 2.5 hours a night homework in year 11 !

[CappuccinoCake]

Gosh I think I'd actively avoid any school doing 1.5 hours of homework a night from year 7 though! (The grammar I taught at didnt). I want time to be children and to do music and sport and to read etc. Thats far too much.

[mountford100]

Spurtions it wouldn't happen to be a a comprehensive in name only with 30% selected via ability !

Otherwise it is statistically impossible to achieve those grades with a random group of 150 pupils at GCSE .

[CappuccinoCake]

In fact its the focus on "hours spent" that i think I'm at odds with educationally. It's a bit like a work culture where arriving early and leaving late is praised but little gets done.

I'd rather focused tasks which may take varying time rather than work for the sake of it to fill a certain time slot.

[mountford100]

DDs school gives 3 HWs per night for all year groups. Year 7 are expected to spend 25 minutes on each piece 75 minutes in total by the time both had finished it ended up being 90 minutes !

Year 8 are expected to do 30 minutes on each piece of home work and because pupils are more organised it ended up being the same time taken as year 7.

DD2 is in year 9 and should be spending 40 minutes per subject per night . However, is being a bit lazy at the moment and doing the same 1hr 30 minutes per night !

DD1 Yr12 is spending about 2.5 hours a night on homework on top of her study periods.

[MumTryingHerBest]

mountford100 with the greatest respect, some DCs don't need to spend 1.5 hrs a night, every night, on homework. I don't often see my DC do any homework as they complete most of it at school. So far they are achieving very high grades and I doubt those grades would increase with an hour and half more work each night as grades are capped. Granted this may change when they are studying A levels though.

[goodbyestranger]

mountford my DC have not had anything like an hour and a half in Y7 indeed it's always been the case that the nearest comp sets far more homework than the grammar, certainly early on. I don't think there's any evidence to show a correlation between time spent on homework and GCSE results.

[Lily2007]

Our grammar sets about 2 hours homework a night for y7, the comprehensive friends claim they get 15 mins so quite a difference. On the whole I would say she's learning a lot from the homework but it seems excessive to me and makes doing clubs as well difficult. The grammar gets around 76 percent A/A star and both GCSE and A Level, the comp around 50 percent 5 A to Cs. However, its difficult to compare as the grammar just takes the equivalent of the top girl from each primary. My son will be going to the comp as boys grammar is an hour away so I will see for myself soon. The grammar is much more traditional and much lower staff turnover.

[Hebenon]

This idea that more homework is better homework is nonsense IMO and I also would actively avoid any school that thought that. I went to one of the most selective schools in the country and we had no more than two pieces of homework a night and frequently just one. If either homework took you longer than twenty minutes, this was taken as a sign that all was not well and you needed some extra help, either in the subject or in personal organisation skills. There is no benefit on just spending a long time doing make-work.

And to the OP, like your son I struggled massively with the transition to secondary and in fact I am not sure I really got to grips with the whole thing until the GCSE years. I was constantly leaving my homework at home, my violin on the bus, my glasses at school etc etc. However, somehow I managed to get all the exams I needed, go to (two) good universities and have a decent career doing something I like (and I no longer struggle with organising myself). So don't stress. He is still very little! He will get there in the end!

[MumTryingHerBest]

Hebenon I also would actively avoid any school that thought that.

I would certainly avoid a Grammar school that thought that. Why on earth would the brightest DCs need to be doing massive amounts of homework? Surely the amount of work and effort required should reflect the ability of the child?

[DivisionBelle]

Mountford: so if your point is that hard work gets better results why mention the type of school?

[CappuccinoCake]

I used to tell students to come find me if they were spending more than 30mins on homework! And my year 8s I'd encourage to write down time spent and to see me of it was getting too much! It was a while ago and cultures changing but I will actively avoid that sort of school for my kids.

[BertrandRussell]

Any school that sets 2 hours homework a night for year 7s is either not teaching them properly during the day OR is trying to impress parents. Neither scenario is good.

[mountford100]

Suddenly 75 minutes a night looks quite reasonable amount doesn't it Bertrand...