How difficult are the London 'Super Grammars' to get into?

[likestoplan]

We all read the stories of their being 12 applicants per place, endless and expensive tutoring needed to get in, and kids getting places from private schools but I'm wondering...

How hard is it to get into one of the London 'Super Grammars'?

Tiffing schools, Latymer, Newstead, Henrietta Barnet; theses are all incredible schools, but it just seems that to get kids in it requires intense training with practise papers and exam technique, and then they have to peak at exactly the right time.

I'd love to hear stories from people who have tried to get DC in, both success and failure stories, and whether the whole experience was stressful on both parent and child or whether you could treat it more like a game and keep things calm.

Many thanks for any info.

[HerdsOfWilderbeest]

Yes agree with high achieving girls and MH issues. It's not the schooling which induces it, but it can be that the environment is quite intense.

[HerdsOfWilderbeest]

PettsWood - yes of course. Townley. Thank you.

[EllyMayClampett]

I'd be interested in stars about high achievers and mental health issues. I'm sure I've read that the deprived have more issues, but we just tend to focus on young, often-female high achievers. Sort of a glamour factor. The way snatched blonde children get more media attention than snatched minority children.

[MarshHarriet]

So would a less intense environment benefit these young women? I.e a non-super-selective?

[MarshHarriet]

Or maybe non-single sex?

[HerdsOfWilderbeest]

Harriet - difficult to say. A lot of them are incredibly self-motivated and push themselves too far and then feed off others doing the same. Non selective probably wouldn't make a difference as they would seek out similarly abled girls. Mixed might work for some.

[MarietteL]

The number of applicants to Tiffin Girls for its 180 places needs to qualified.
1,510 registered for Stage 1 tests but this could be anyone, even someone with little to no chance of passing. 1,358 sat these tests, others don't turn up for whatever reasons, such as not being ready.
458 sat Stage 2 tests, this is the number which counts as these were the actual competitors with a feasible chance.

[amidawish]

but the 458 were selected from the stage one...
it's bloody difficult to even get that far.

[Kora]

As to mental health issues for girls at superselectives, I can say that having been bullied at primary for being a swot and a nerd, going to one of the ss schools mentioned where academic interest was nurtured and encouraged rather saved my mh rather than damaged it. I was a different, much happier person by the end and it opened doors to opportunities which suited me well. I'd say treat these schools like you would other potential school options. Yes they choose through selection, but you know your child and put their name down to be eligible, so beforehand you should visit and check out if you think it's the right place for your child to thrive. Always good to big up the back up options too and choose in same way.

[amidawish]

true Kora
personally all these reasons combined are why i chose an academically selective mixed secondary...

[2016Blyton]

Excatly and my daughters were at super selectives (private, top 5 etc schools) and no mental health issues for them at all) Yes in most schools inthe land you get some children with mental health issues but if you are in a school where people arel ike you - hard working and academic you tend to find you are less not more likely to suffer mental health problems.

I have a friends whose daughter was at Henrietta B and then Oxford. I don't think she found it that hard to get in from a state primary. The father is very bright so presumably she is just naturally fairly clever.

[Yokohamajojo]

Why start exactly the same thread as you did 2013?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/secondary/1699377-North-London-Grammar-School-entrance-exams-V-Tough

[wholemealchips]

Obviously I am biased, but I would say that an honest tutor would assess the child, be open and frank with the parents, then take it from there. I believe that with the right coaching, most hardworking kids can secure a place. It the combination of their attitude, their fit with the teacher, and the support of the patents which is vital. That and hiring an experienced fully qualified tutor rather than a post A level student aiming to get some gap year money together! There are certain books, tasks and past papers which a good tutor can access and which can make a real difference. Also, all the grammars are different, so you need a tutor who adapts teaching to encompass the range of entrance exams. Basically, it's down to hard graft and continuity. You can do it without a tutor, but unless the child is highly gifted and talented, very numerate, a natural problem solver, and writes quick, astute comprehensions and pithy articulate compositions in under thirty minutes, tuition makes the difference.

[FanDabbyFloozy]

Does anyone have a view on how seriously these top schools take sport?

I know QE Boys are very sporty - rugby, cricket etc.

But a friend went to the Henrietta Barnett open day and claims they barely mentioned sport, and none of the girls showing her around did much at school.

I don't expect them to be like independent schools but some sports would be desirable.

[PettsWoodParadise]

At NW they take sport seriously but not overly so, it just seems to complement the competitive ethos a lot of the girls have. They win a lot of inter-school competitions. DD isn't particularly sporty and she doesn't feel under pressure to do well at sport but as many of the girls are encouraged to start clubs for their interests once they are further up the school and DD is already trying to work out how to get enough fencing kit to loan out to those interested in giving the sport she loves a try. The enthusiasms of the the older girls breed enthusiasm in the younger girls and they also learn that if they want something to happen they have to get involved to a greater degree than just turning up and trying.

[william4th]

The competition for the grammar schools in Barnet (and Latymer) is ferocious. Our daughter just got a place at St Michael's, having missed out at Henrietta and Latymer (by a few marks). She was top of her primary class all the way through school and worked very hard, with tuition, for two hours per night and plenty of time at weekends, for the last two years.
If your child is really bright and willing to work very hard indeed, then you may have a chance. It seems that only one other child, in her year of 60, got a place at any of said schools. If you're not all totally committed, just don't go there.

[peteneras]

OK, I know this thread is over two years old and the thread title, 'London Super Grammars' somehow caught my eyes as this subject brings back many memories for me. Both my kids had undergone the process in years long past and emerged very successfully. However, in the past year or so, I had been advising and guiding a friend who had great ambitions for her DD to go to St Michael's and I was woken up from my sleep yesterday by a phone call to hear a lady screaming hysterically that (name) had got a place at St Michael's!!!!!

Yes, william4th, my friend's DD had worked incredibly hard over the last few years and scored superbly in the tests last month achieving an average mark of around 95% over the four elements of the tests. And yet, this set of marks is only about avarage if her ranking in the successful cohort is anything to go by. That's why these schools are called, 'Super Grammars'.

Congratulations to your DD!

[LucheroTena]

You have to be both very bright and very ‘prepared / practised’ from what I’ve seen. If you look at the very scary 11 plus forum the children all seem to be intensively tutored (diy or employing tutors) from an early age. Then those children seem to be coming out with the highest marks (grammars) or scholarships (independents).

My daughter is a very fast learner and at a good selective independent. I went into it naively and gave her a few practice papers and 4 sessions with a paid tutor. Nearer the time I found out children were in tutoring from year 4. She had enough ability to pass the ones she sat for but the scholarships went to the intensively tutored / prep schooled. Since she started the school quickly recognised she was clever and she was awarded a scholarship in year 9. The scholars from 11+ are a mixed bag, all bright but not all top set / top of top set.

In summary I think the entry tests are a crock of shit, weighted towards the prepared and monied. And I think it sadly puts bright children at a disadvantage to not prepare. At the same time over prep puts the kids under a lot of stress, if they don’t pass there is the feeling of having failed, the waste of time and money etc.

It’s all gone bonkers in the London region basically.

[londonista1]

Those who need to be so heavily tutored to get in will need to be tutored once they're there too, or else they'll fall behind. And, yes, the North London bit of the elevenplus forum is genuinely insane. I feel sorry for a lot of those kids.

[jeanne16]

I work in a London Independent school and we no longer use the entrance exam results to set the pupils in Maths when they arrive. We wait until the October half-term and assess them ourselves as the entrance exam results throw up so many extraordinary anomalies, some much higher and others lower than they should be.

[cakeisalwaystheanswer]

And not far from you at another SW london Indy Jeanne, DD's school have stopped giving 11+ scholarships for similar reasons. Instead they now give them at Y9 after 2 years of seeing who is genuinely bright and not just over-tutored. They still give bursaries at 11+ though.

[greencatbluecat]

Tried to get my DD into one of them. No tutor but she did have a class once a week at school and I did practice with her.

She did not even come close to getting enough marks on the test.

She went to a comprehensive and is very very happy. AND she is doing very very welll. She has just done 10 GCSEs and got 9s and 8s. She obviously should have got into the super grammar...... but it didn't matter.

Postscript: She applied to the super grammar school for 6th form and was accepted. In the end, she turned down the place at the grammar (and they were flabbergasted). She is now doing 4 A-Levels in her comprehensive, which has a 6th form of less than half the size of the grammar. Hence the classes in the comprehensive are tiny - typically about 4 kids. I suspect they would have been 15 or 20 in the grammar. She is hoping to get into Oxbridge.