Anyone else going for a secondary appeal now?

[Thistly]

Hi, I just received the news that my daughter did not get a place in the school she wanted. Been on the phone to the council, and it turns out she had not been put in the category I was expecting, so just waiting to find out from the school why that is.

She has been offered a place in her second choice, for which I am grateful, but I think only one boy from her class had chosen that school, so she is not keen.

Not looking forward to telling her the news after school.

Anyone else in a similar situation?

[Potterwolfie]

Yes thistly the emails (sent over a year or so) were essential to our appeal. We're thankful it was successful in the end, as the school is perfect for DS, but the whole process caused us (we kept it all from DS) stress, sleepless nights and a whole heap of wondering if we were doing the right thing.

lucsy I agree with thanking Tiggy, PRH and Admissions...their knowledge, and willingness to help us navigate this complex area was invaluable and very much appreciated!

[Thistly]

Hi lucsy,
Well done for getting through the process, glad to hear you were successful

Was it a wrong category?

These messages give me hope!

[Thistly]

Wow, potter, I can see why a paper trail would have been crucial in your case.

Glad you were successful in the end.

[Potterwolfie]

Hi thistly, the school allocated on church attendance, then distance. No random allocation. We're 0.5miles from school and attend church. Our issue was that we were advised by school and LA (in writing, on several occasions) to apply for a place using our permanent UK address even though we were clear that we were overseas at the point of application, and were returning to that address a few weeks before term started. When we applied, only at that point did the school say it wouldn't recognise our UK address.

If they'd said that from the start we wouldn't have applied, but as it was, the appeal was successful due to several errors made during the admissions process.

[Thistly]

That's helpful, prh, I'll think carefully about it then. I wanted someone else to talk about her spiritual development and the importance of being in a school with a Christian ethos.
Largely because she is following her own journey in this regard, and I really don't feel that I am involved enough to speak confidently and convincingly on the topic.

[prh47bridge]

which doesn't list Quakers as members

Yes it does but it uses their proper name - Religious Society of Friends.

Can you get other people (like church elder) to speak as well at appeal

You can get other people to speak at appeal but you should only do so if their evidence will be relevant. I'm not sure what a church elder would add to your appeal.

[Thistly]

Potter Wolfe, was your school using distance or random aloocation?
Thanks for the recommendation and good wishes

[Thistly]

Thank you for the ongoing comments,
As I understand it, it is as prh says, they randomise the waiting list afresh every time a place comes up.

Yes, it would be a straight disadvantage or not if it was distance, but it's less clear than that.


Can you get other people (like church elder) to speak as well at appeal?


I might try and borrow that book off the library.

[meditrina]

Quakers are members of CTE, under their formal name of the Religious Society of Friends

[catslife]

I suspect that the problem could be that there is more than one group called churches Together. I have found this link on the national Churches together in England website which doesn't list Quakers as members www.cte.org.uk/Groups/234690/Home/About/Member_Churches_of/Member_Churches_of.aspx. So perhaps a congregation being part of a local group isn't enough.
Have double checked local faith schools (C of E and Catholic) don't require baptism but do require christian groups to either be a member of Churches Together or a member of evangelical alliance.
I agree that the poster should obtain further clarification, but this could be the issue.

[prh47bridge]

Is she now slotted in after all the other people in the "Other Christians" category who did have their names in the hat?

Not if they are doing the process correctly. They have to hold a fresh draw whenever a place becomes available.

[prh47bridge]

There's no such thing as "might" in the world of admissions

You seem to have missed the fact that this school uses random allocation. Distance is irrelevant. They don't use it in their process. They draw names out of a hat. We know the OP's daughter should have been in the hat but there is no way of knowing whether or not she would have been drawn had she been in the hat.

[titchy]

Tiggy I think OP said they use a lottery draw to deal with over subscription in any category. So they are correct to say there were no guarantees she would have got a place if she were in the correct category. Not quite sure how they can make sure she isn't disadvantaged actually.....

[Potterwolfie]

Hi thistly we went through an appeal last year, and DS was given a place due to an administrative error made during the admissions process which denied him a place. I would recommend getting everything down in writing now, keep copies of all emails or letters, and make a note of all phone calls, dates and times and who you spoke to.

I'd also recommend getting a copy of a book like How to Win your School Appeal by Ben Rooney which will help you understand the appeals process and gives a great framework to follow when writing your appeal. Finally, the support from the friendly experts on here was invaluable.

Happy to share more info if you want to DM me.

[Katenka]

Thanks tiggy I just sat in the floor when I got the letter. I couldn't move. Best day ever.

Went straight up to school and told dd.

Op if your dd would have got a place, had they have put her in the right category, that's really good for your appeal.

You need to look at the other criteria and figures. We got given it all before the appeal. How many kids got in, the furthest distance was of a child that did get, waiting list figures etc.

That will help you figure out if she would have got in or not.

[RedHelenB]

It may even work in your favour as it now seems likely she will get a place, given that they obviously can't redo the random selection part. Had she been placed in the right category at the start she could have lost out.

[Thistly]

Katenka.... That sounds so gruelling and brutal!

Tiggy,
So far they have moved her category. If she had been in the correct category she might have got a place... Some but not all did, through random allocation, so impossible to know if she would have been one of the lucky one (which is what the woman at lea said).

I queried the fact that she might have been offered a place, had she been correctly categorised and the school said to proceed with an appeal, but that they would discuss it.

So I guess I wait and see if they get back to me about that, but in the meantime, I write some emails, and fill all the forms in.

[Katenka]

The admissions office were lovely and really helpful.

Our post is terrible, things comes weeks late so they told me to ring every week to see if the appeal date had been released.

You just have to go into knowing that the person at the appeal is doing their job and will try and win at all cost. It's their job. We just got someone who didn't know where the line was.

The way she acted made me wonder if she got some sort of bonus or incentive for winning.

She even called me a bad planner and a bad mother for not preparing my child for going to the school we got (she was attacked by a pupil who was going there. The police charged him and dd was suffering from ptsd).

Not all appeals or people who do them are like this. But I went into knowing I had to have the same 'take no prisons' attitude whilst trying to not be aggressive or angry. And have all the paperwork to back me up.

Note she didn't call dh a bad parent. Just me. Thankfully our sendco was really good and backed us up and rebuffed the 'she needs to get over it attitude'.

[meditrina]

"They have all been sympathetic over the phone."

Just in case you need a paper trail, send a follow up email after phone exchanges, summarising your understanding of what had been said/agreed. Then if they have misspoken, they have a chance to correct things before you rely on them. And if they don't want to make any amendations, you have your record of what was said and can show it was not challenged at the time.