Are BTECs becoming the new CSEs now that GCSEs are becoming more academic?

[lasermum]

DS2 is in year 9 and we are starting to look at options for his GCSEs or that is what I thought. However, at his recent parents evening a number of teachers said that BTECs may be more appropriate for him ( science and PE).

DS2 is not particularly academic - other teachers mentioned he was heading for a level 5 in the new grades.

So are BTECs the qualification for the less academically able now? I just want him to feel happy in his choices and be able to study something meaningful when he gets to the sixth form.

He has no real idea what he wants to do in the longer term (apart from living in a campervan spending his days coaching and being on the water, surfing, windsurfing and sailing!)

I don't know much about BTECs so any feedback much appreciated.

[lasermum]

Actually DS2 would be great at running his own business. He is quite savvy and street smart. He has great interpersonal skills too. He is the complete opposite of DS1 who is very academic ( being encouraged by school to consider Oxbridge) but not great on social skills.

I guess it would be boring if they were both the same! It also makes me thankful that we live near a very good comprehensive school which they both attend and which meets the differing needs of both of them so well.

[Sadik]

I know plenty of people who make their living teaching outdoor pursuits / surfing / kayaking / etc - don't dismiss it as a job! Lots of opportunity once you've got experience to run your own business, too if your DS is that way inclined :)

[lasermum]

Thank you for your replies. My Ds2 really isn't likely to be considering Oxbridge. He isn't sure what he wants to do in the future - today's idea was PE teacher.

BTEC PE looks like a good way to study his chosen sports now that the GCSE PS syllabus has become so restricted. Sadly no Sea Scouts around but we make sure he has lots of opportunities to take part in watersports.

[sablepoot]

One of my dc did a btec l3 and then l4 following excellent GCSEs. From what I saw of it the l3 standard was equivalent to a levels (though assessed differently) and the l4 is very challenging. Dc in question could have made a credible Oxbridge application from GCSE grades at least, but the btec l3 wouldn't have cut it as it was only equivalent to 2 a levels (they come in different sizes). I like to kid myself they may go to university later as a mature student, but it's actually fairly unlikely and I think there would be funding issues too. A levels keep more doors open I think, but btecs shouldn't be sneered at.

[cricketballs]

BTEC has always had a poor reputation however the courses are actually very challenging at level 2 &3 for the merit and distinction criteria as they need students to work independently and evidence high level analytical and evaluative skills.

The reason they have a bad reputation is mainly due to the fact that everyone thinks that is only the teacher that marks whereas in reality the teacher marks, this is then verified internally then a sample is checked by Edexcel. Students now have to sit an exam as well.

For Level 2 (GCSE), it does not stop uni offers to the top ranking institutions ; I have previous level 2 students who have gone on to Oxbridge, Durham etc.

Whilst my Level 3 students have not applied to the MN top ranking unis , they have all gone on to a decent unis, including my own DS who is at a top ranked uni for his field, a top 20 uni overall.....

This link might be of interest to some

[EricNorthmanSucks]

My university places a lot of importance on GCSEs.

Provided there are 8/9 solid ones, a couple of BTs alongside would be ignored. So no problem doing them, but no help either ( in respect of an application to my university).

[BertrandRussell]

OP- do you have Sea Scouts anywhere near where you live? They are always desperate for volunteers, although I think you have to be 16, and he will be able to get lots of really useful CV fodder! And have a lot of fun doing it.

[mouldycheesefan]

It sounds like your son knows exactly what he wants to do! There are great opportunities in teaching watersports and outdoor pursuits! You can work all over the work, you can learn to sail and can crew/manage yachts etc etc. I know one young person, not academic, who is having the most fantastic career doing this around the world.

[BertrandRussell]

We have to work with what's available.

But many of the "best" schools, both state and private, see no need for more than 9 GCSEs. And more will probably follow suit, now that GCSEs are going to be harder and taken in one sitting at the end of year 11.

[bojorojo]

On some courses at Bristol, 20% weighting is given to GCSEs when admissions tutors look at academic profiles. Again, no mention of BTECs. So yes, Rafa, they are now important and this flies in the face of MN wisdom!

[bojorojo]

My point was that Cambridge do not mention BTECs in their GCSE section. One would infer that they do not expect to see them! So yes, a huge risk I think. I have never seen any advice that says a broad set of mostly academic GCSEs are not the most desirable qualifications for Cambridge. Why take exams that do not get a mention on their website as a substitute for those that do? Good non academic schools may not give the best advice on highly competitive academic courses.

[HarveySchlumpfenburger]

oops, sorry. Not sure what happened there. MN went a bit weird.

[HarveySchlumpfenburger]

With the end of AS/A2s in favour of straight A-levels, it's possible that GCSEs will become a more important consideration for universities. And to an extent they are considered at the moment anyway.

Reducing the number of GCSEs and replacing some with BTECs is a bit of a risk for a candidate with their eye on Cambridge. Does the school have a good history with getting it's most able into Oxbridge?

[HarveySchlumpfenburger]

With the end of AS/A2s in favour of straight A-levels, it's possible that GCSEs will become a more important consideration for universities. And to an extent they are considered at the moment anyway.

Reducing the number of GCSEs and replacing some with BTECs is a bit of a risk for a candidate with their eye on Cambridge. Does the school have a good history with getting it's most able into Oxbridge?

[BertrandRussell]

I don't think anyone would think BTecs could replace A levels for Russell Group universities. I thought we were talking about GCSE level.

[BertrandRussell]

"the best schools and candidates do not do BTECs."

Well, the best academic schools may not. However, the "best" schools include many that are not solely academically focussed. Whatever mumsnetters might think.

[QueenofallIsee]

The 'top' universities don't take them as an A Level equivalent at the moment but I don't think it matters at GSCE level.

My DD is a smart girl and a hard worker but under performs in examinations (Bs and Cs at GSCE)

She is doing BTECs instead of A Levels and is on track for distinctions and distinction + (A/A* in old money) That will get her into Uni but not a red brick. It suits her far better than traditional style courses

[bojorojo]

Cambridge University specially says on its web site that they do not consider BTECs as suitable preparation for the majority of their courses because their courses are academic and they consider BTECs to be vocational. They do not accept them instead of A levels. They do not even mention their existence in the GCSE information paragraph! Therefore BTECs instead of GCSEs are a bit of a gamble. However 8 academic subjects with plenty of A*s is good but must be at the lowest end of numbers of GCSEs held by successful candidates these days. I still do not see any advantage in BTECs over GCSEs for academic courses at the best universities. As I said earlier, the best schools and candidates do not do BTECs.

[TeenAndTween]

On my great experience of 1 term of 1 specific BTEC at A level equivalent

The impression I am getting is that it is easier to pass a BTEC but that to get the top grades you have to have the analytical and independence of thinking and research skills that would be needed to get high grade A levels.

One thing though, is that because they are vocational they are by definition less generic, so an academic kid who doesn't know what direction they may want to go in, is probably better served by doing A levels than by a BTEC.

So one or 2 at GCSE level as part of a balanced portfolio of GCSEs - no issue. But I suspect very few people knowingly aiming at top RG would pick a BTEC at A level unless for very specific courses.

[RaskolnikovsGarret]

To the ignorant like me, BTecs do sound less academic. I think of them as vocational, and would assume that the pupils were less academic (no judgement of that of course, just an assumption). But this thread proves me wrong.

[BertrandRussell]

Well, my ds has his eyes on Cambridge- and will have 2 BTecs and 8 GCSEs........

[bojorojo]

How many students with BTECs get to Oxbridge? Or UCL, or Durham or Bristol or.....? Just wondering!

[BertrandRussell]

Oh, and a distinction or a distinction star in a BTec does count as an A at GCSE.

[BertrandRussell]

You need to find out which ones the school offers- don't get him excited about the outdoor pursuits until you're sure it's an option........

[BertrandRussell]

At my ds's school, they all do 2 BTecs. The more academic kids then do 8 GCSEs as well, the less academic a mixture of more BTecs and GCSEs. Ds has just finished his first BTec (he's in year 10) and has just started the second. I have to say, he found it cripplingly boring- and there is now an exam as well, so the idea of them being good for less academic people because of no exam is a bit of a red herring. G