mixed ability classes at secondary school can someone explain please?

[lovebeingamum01]

Hi there, I'm new to mums net and wondered if someone with any knowledge or experience of mixed ability classes at secondary school can help me please?

My daughter has just started in year 7. She has shown an aptitude for languages and as well as doing Spanish she has been offered French too. In her recent tests she scored 90%.

She has not had any tests in Year 7 yet for English or Religious studies. However she did get a 5a in her English SATS.

I have been advised today that they have made a top class (set 1), then three mixed ability sets (set 2,3,4) and then a lower set (set 5). My daughter has been placed into set 3 for Languages, English and Religion.

When Ive challenged the school and asked them to explain how a child who in their own words has a natural aptitude for languages and is scoring 90% in tests is in set 3. Ive also asked how when she scored a 5a in SATS (well above national average) she is in set 3 for English?

The response....we link English, Languages and Religious Studies together and depending where you sit within one depends on your placement for the other two also? Is it just me that thinks that this is moronic? They are completely different subjects. My daughter may not be as strong in Religious studies, I wouldn't know as there have never been any tests to determine her skill level. A child may be better at languages than English for example, should this mean that they are held back in one subject at the expense of another?

Has anyone else experienced anything similar? I would be so grateful for advice as Im intending to go into school soon to sort this out.

PS) My 12year old's own words following her first day in the new mixed ability Spanish class, "why do I have to go over the same information that I already know and find easy, just because the person sitting next to me doesn't understand it"?.

Sorry for the rant guys

[pointythings]

DDs' school only sets for Maths and English in Yrs 7 and 8. They choose options in Yr 8 and then are set for most things in Yr9 - the humanities are the exception, but it is much more straightforward to teach mixed ability in a subject like History than it would be in Maths.

No way has your DD not been assessed, does your school have an online system for accessing reports?

[PiqueABoo]

In DD's Y7 it was mixed ability for everything except maths which was set. If the teachers were skilled at differentiating then they clearly chose not to utilise those skills, except in the maths set!

There may be miraculous exceptions, but in general I don't think differentiation works very well at secondary. Primary can do it to an extent because it is typically one class teacher for almost everything all week and they're often marking todays work and then using that to adjust tomorrow's lessons/differentiation.

It's much better here in the current Y8 because there are sets for most subjects.

[LooseAtTheSeams]

Our school has no sets for first half term, then sets for maths, English, science and languages. I have to say my DS really wishes they set for history and geography as well but he's doing really well in those subjects and not suffering from the mixed ability teaching!

[swingofthings]

I would say that you are lucky that she is even is set in Year 7. My kids school don't set kids in year 7, and now, even year 8 are not set. All this is due to what the school can cope with in arranging time table etc...

Both my kids were bored stiff in Year 7 as they were high attainers in Year 6. In DD's case, they didn't do level 6, so got 5a in Maths and English, although her teachers said she had been working all year at level 6. DS's school was on a mission to get as many pupils to attain level 6 as I understand that came with additional funding. They recruited teachers from the local secondary school to provide an additional hour a week sessions (both English and Maths) and sure enough the proportion of pupils getting level 6 was double that of the national average.

However frustrating it was for them (and me), I am not concerned about their progress as their ability was picked up in time, and whether in sets or not, were challenged appropriately. What really helped was discussing this matter at parents evening. I noticed that more attention was given to them after that. DD is preparing for her GCSEs now, taking 12 of them and expecting As and A*s in all of them, so I know the school did manage to provide adequate support despite their attitude to streaming.

It is only year 7, so there is plenty of time for her to evolve. Do trust the teachers, they are experienced in spotting children's ability, but it does take them a bit of time to get to know them.

[PiqueABoo]

Bit late, but to help clarify some of the L6 murkiness for anyone who has been murked there are roughly 1/2 milion children doing SATs every year and the numbers passing the L6 Reading SAT were:

2012: 900
2013: 2,262
2014: 935
2015: 1,460

Pass rates clearly weren't very consistent year-on-year and there aren't that many children who do pass to fill lots of top sets.

Perhaps you all live in the same few high-SES areas and perhaps that where the majority who did pass it live.

Or perhaps the Reading SATs is being confused with the Y6 teacher assessment for Reading and/or Writing.

Or something else.

For contrast the number of children who passed the 2015 L6 Maths SAT was 50,932.

[Saxons]

Alleorn - I live near a grammar. My local schools vary A LOT.

Top set in one local school in close by affluent area with an amazing private school - mostly C's at GCSE. Few A's or B's. Average sats results.

Top set in other affluent area - mostly level 6's in year 6. Also 30% of grades are A and A* students at GCSE.

[allwornout0]

Out of interest, if the OP was talking about a bog standard Secondary school in a Grammar school county, what levels would a child have to be to be in the top set?

[disquisitiones]

Yes, I appreciate that some posters do mean this, but others say explicitly that they think the top set is for those who got level 6s in SATS. A typical comprehensive doesn't have 20% of pupils coming in at level 6+.

[pieceofpurplesky]

Dis - to clarify it means pupils capable of a L6 in year 7 based on SATS.

[disquisitiones]

If there was a top set it would be filled with level sixes and above.

This is a comprehensive school with 5 sets. Unless 20% of their intake is level six and above (which is not consistent with national KS2 results), they can't fill their top set with level sixes and above.

Even a comprehensive with a very skewed catchment such as our catchment school (virtually no low achievers, 60% high achievers) doesn't claim that 20% of their intake come in working at level six or above in English. I think that 15-20% do come in working at level six or above in Maths, but nationally a lot more children get level 6 Maths at KS2 than they do English.

OP said that her DD achieved middle level 5 SATS, which could well translate into working at low/middle level 5 in day to day lessons. This would then explain why she wasn't in the top set along with those working at high level 5 and above.

[gandalf456]

I actually don't think mixed ability is a bad thing but if they're going to do it, they should go the whole way. Setting can sometimes work and sometimes be terrible.

At my daughter's previous school, the setting system seemed to work in the top sets children's favour anyway. They were the ones who got challenged and worked alongside conscientious pupils while their confidence and ability grew. My daughter was in the bottom sets and got the same work week in, week out, worked alongside disruptive pupils when her main problem was being easily distracted. Her other problem was not being very independent with her work so having a TA there to depend on was counterproductive for her, too. She said herself she just gave up and couldn't do it but, funnily enough, flew ahead in Maths when they finally moved her up and is now one of the better ones in her group.

So, in a nutshell, teachers do get it wrong from time to time. I'm sure you get parents who can't take their child being in the top groups (and no one wants to be them) but, by and large, I do think parents' cases should be heard.

[mummytime]

There is no way that your daughter "hasn't been assessed yet" in English. She may not have sat any formal exams or tests but every piece of work she does assesses her.

[myotherusernameisbetter]

I can't believe how few times that English is timetabled in a week. Are those all double periods? My DSs get 5 or 6 (roughly 50 minutes) periods of English and Maths per week. They get both every day.

[lovebeingamum01]

Clary - She has English time tabled twice each week and Literacy once per fortnight. Ive asked her what she does in Literacy and she said spelling tests, structuring a letter and independent reading.

Thank you everyone for taking the time to add your comments, they have all been very helpful and informative. Its my first post on here and its nice to know there's people out there willing to help.

Good night all :o)

[Bolognese]

State school KS3 mixed ability is the norm. Why is that bad? You do know that teachers know how to differentiate lessons. If there was a top set it would be filled with level sixes and above. Scoring 90% in one Y7 test is no big shakes, its not that hard. She WILL have had a teacher assessment in English you just wont know about it, probably your DD didn't even know about it. Do you know how many times a school/teacher gets a complaint about their DD not being in the top set, do you think the school has a conspiracy to hold back clever kids? What did she get in Maths?

Its not moronic, its normal, and for good reasons.

[pieceofpurplesky]

Obviously should say without a doubt!

[IguanaTail]

Y7 normally have 5 or 6 one hour lessons per fortnight. Very often one is specifically set aside for literacy, as in teaching them spelling rules or grammar rules / punctuation etc. That's not to say that every lesson isn't also geared towards literacy (across the whole curriculum in fact) but literacy is often taught discretely, sometimes with the weekly spelling test, for example.

[clary]

I teach MFL and we have always taught yr 7 in mixed ability classes. This year we have set, but like at your DD's school, the sets are blocked across subjects, so for sure there are some anomalies (eg someone v good at French but maybe weaker in English/humanities so in a lower set).

Teachers are skilled at setting work to challenge different abilities. In fact your DD is in a set - the most able and then the weakest are in different sets.

If she is finding the work too easy, she should raise it with the teacher, ask for an extension, or think of her own way to extend the task.

I am sure by the way she must have had some tests or assessments in English. Maybe not reported as formal tests?

What do you mean by one literacy lesson? Surely she has several English lessons a week?

[ravenAK]

Realistically - it'll be a) timetabling - they probably need to block Eng/RE/MFL together - year 7 do tend to be timetabled last, after setted GCSE classes have been tweaked & b) year 6 SATs aren't much of an indicator of future attainment, because they are heavily coached by some schools & not others, & also the marking is quite unreliable.

So the school has probably put the obvious high flyers (level 6/top level 5 kids - your dd's 5b for reading wouldn't be quite top set for lots of schools) in a top set, & the rest will be set for year 8 according to attainment over year 7.

It's not ideal, I agree.

Although for what it's worth - I've taught in two schools where top set year 7 were routinely given to less experienced staff or non subject specialists, on the basis that they would be an easy group to manage & wouldn't come to much harm from a year with someone who was muddling along a bit...I certainly wouldn't automatically assume a dc would get the 'best' teaching in set 1.

[myotherusernameisbetter]

Rosefor My DS2 (3rd year) seems to have one (double) period a week with a different teacher where they read whatever book they've brought in (and take it in turns to bring in biscuits!) he says they have always had a separate reading class since he's been in High School. DS1 tells me nothing so I have no idea if that is normal or not.

[cece]

In my experience if your DD is in the wrong set then it will be spotted and she will be moved. Of course they can be moved up or down!

I agree you need to approach the school and ask what she needs to do to be moved up. Have you actually asked the school directly about their setting and your DD's class?

TBH whilst level 5 is a good result it does sound like the top set will be level 6 and she is in the correct set.

[IguanaTail]

Unless you have all the test scores of the whole cohort in front of you, you can't make a judgment about whether or not she is in the correct set. She might be very able, but if there are 30 more able than her then she will be in the middle set.

They effectively have 3 ability groupings, and your daughter is in the middle.

Subjects are "blocked" together on the timetable. In some schools, students are in the same class all day, no matter what the subject.

[Roseformeplease]

I am not sure what you mean about a separate Literacy lesson. We have English (6x 35 or 40 minutes a week) and then Literacy is part of every lesson - after all, they are always reading, writing and talking. But, I am in Scotland so can't really advise. A separate lesson sounds odd to me - what sort of things do they do?

[lovebeingamum01]

thank you Roseformeplease that is very helpful. I agree with you about the importance of reading, reading and more reading. May I ask in your experience is it normal for Y7 kids to only get one literacy lesson per fortnight?

[Roseformeplease]

I teach English and, because of the size of the school, classes are all mixed ability for the first 3 years. As a teacher, you learn to cope with different abilities - setting different books, tasks and targets. Two pupils could both be writing about something (Should there be a curfew on under 12s, for example). One might write 1200 words with a target to link paragraphs, improve use of semi colons and use footnotes. Another might be at the opposite end of the scale and be given an essay frame where they filled in some of the blanks.

As far as English is concerned, read. Then read some more. And then read another book.

Language aptitude is different but pupils at my school are also in mixed ability in French and the results at all levels are superb. My children have come through this system very well and are both on target for excellent universities (one wants to read languages, if that helps).

So, don't worry but do ask if the work is being differentiated and how she can be stretched to ensure she is challenged and remains motivated.