Magdalen College School/ Oxford High GDST Sixth Forms

[Molio]

I'd be very grateful for any informed views on either or both of these schools. The student in question is a Y10 girl, good socially with both girls and boys but has been at a co-ed state school hitherto. She's an extremely high achiever, predicted ten top grades but very unstressy and relaxed. I've been asked for advice but am naturally disinclined towards single sex girls' schools. Parent is single, not well off but wouldn't qualify for a bursary and is able and willing to release equity to pay for two years of fees. The mother and daughter don't currently live in Oxford so socially the girl would have to start all over again.

Thanks to anyone who can help.

[morecoffee12]

User1477 -



I'm so sorry to read this. I have no experience of OHS, suffice to say that some highly selective girls schools are toxic places. Do you really want her to stay there for 6th form?? Why not move her locally to a less pressured more all round school like Headington? Is she getting treatment for her anorexia? Helping her with that must be your priority.

Good luck.

[Molio]

Ho6 would be fine.

Forewarned is forearmed on the looking up and down front - at least clothes can be chosen accordingly! (the DD's very unexceptional school uniform might do :)).

Timing advice is useful, it looks as though at least a couple of schools could be scheduled for the same day, which is far more efficient - thanks.

[bojorojo]

From my experience it is usually the Head of 6th Form that does 6th form recruitment and normally a meeting is scheduled with them. In independent schools, Heads come in and do the grand talks and the hard sell! Parents rarely get to see the Head individually. However, we met fantastic Heads of 6th forms and they really know the 6th form inside out. We did not at any school we visited for 6th form for DD1 or DD2 meet the Head on a 1:1 basis and these were boarding schools and more expensive! Yes, all schools will make an effort to show parent/child around on a working day. That is a vital part of choosing a school. Sometimes a pupil will do it (my DD1 should have been on commission!) and sometimes a parent might come in to show you around. You would need to allow about 30-40 mins with the Head of 6th Form to talk about subjects, other interests and ambitions and then another hour to look around the school. If you are lucky you may get a cup of tea! 2 hours max. At some schools, DD did go off with a pupil to meet other pupils. At open days, you normally tour as a family.

The schools where my DD2 was looked up and down, Molio, were co-ed schools. Not single sex. It did not happen at the single sex school she eventually went to! I think girls, at any school, can be very aware of whether the new girl might present a "threat" to their perceived status and whether, or not, she is like them and will fit into their group of friends. They definitely clock how a girl is dressed (yes, it is shallow) and make judgements about what type of girl she might be! Of course this is not a majority of girls at any school!

[Molio]

I was talking about the situation with parents actually, because anyone would be fine to go around with a DD. But surely all parents considering forking out for fees get to talk to the HT? Or at least to a member of the SLT? I'm just not sure how it works.

[Gruach]

I have no real idea regarding sixth form entry now but one would hope someone could be found to show the daughter around even outside pre-planned open days; it doesn't have to be the Head.

[Molio]

Very good advice Gruach, especially on reflection and for sixth form entry. I have no experience of the protocol for independent schools as far as visiting/ talking to the HT goes, since mine have all gone state. But I do now see significant advantage in the DD visiting without the mother, although I'm absolutely certain the mother would want to scope out the schools first and I'm sure she'd want to talk to the HT, if possible. Do HTs at these places always make time for prospective parents, or do they tend to ask them to come to a single open day, or how does it work? How long would a visit take if it's not done open day style? Is there much for a HT to say about the school which isn't on the glossy brochure? Don't HTs see having to speak to prospective parents as quite a waste of their time?

[Gruach]

Oh yes, obviously the parent is still in charge.

But, in the "looking you up and down" scenario mentioned above, being trailed after a parent is quite distancing. If the daughter turns up on her own and is introduced to a group of pupils by a member of staff the reaction may well be more instantly relaxed. So she can make a better judgement herself of what they're like. And (at that age) there is nothing worse than sitting in a potentially new Head's office with your mother while they talk about you. Far more rewarding to have a one to one chat without helpful interjections ...

[Molio]

Interesting suggestion Gruach. I guess the middle ground would be parent going on her own initially then the DD going subsequently but on her own. I can't imagine many parents are prepared to cede the responsibility completely to the child? Or are they? (Mine were never given a choice!). All the schools mentioned clearly have the potential for good outcomes and I think that unless the DD goes off the rails, she'd be highly likely to get into any, so I reckon the social/ happiness thing will be decisive. It does actually make very good sense if the parent has shortlisted first, and then leaves it up to the child.

[Gruach]

I think the mum would need to test the water first and only take the DD to somewhere which could be presented as really quite exciting.

Alternatively ... Years ago the sister of a university friend of mine moved between Oxford High and Headington (can't recall in which direction) for sixth form - and the first her parents knew of it was when the confirmation of acceptance letter dropped onto the doormat.

I don't suppose that could happen so easily now but, if this young woman is sensible enough to acknowledge the inevitable, and if her DM already has plenty to be getting on with, might it not help to pass some responsibility for finding the right school onto the daughter? Perhaps she might feel more positively assertive about it all if she visits school's first without her DM. (I experienced a similar disruption and visits to potential new schools by myself were marginally less excruciating than being accompanied by a parent.)

BTW boys at comparable schools (and preps) also do the looking up and down thing. It doesn't inevitably mean they won't turn out to be delightful.

[Molio]

Thanks bojorojo and I absolutely agree about the happiness thing, but sometimes life gets in the way of school stuff and there's a very definite pressure to move. I think the move would happen sooner if it weren't for public exams. Life for the mother is not straightforward.

I find the girls not looking up from phones thing/ looking up to judge pretty intriguing and it doesn't fill me with confidence. It's the potential for that whole nasty girl thing that makes me instinctively prejudiced against single sex. The girl in question is incredibly good natured and sporty but more school team than county or national level and certainly not a queen bee, just clubbable. But very clever indeed. She'd simply be looking to settle down quickly with a few good friends, not be some new intake prima donna. I'm not sure if that's good or bad, having no experience of moving DC.

[bojorojo]

Yes. I see what you mean but when the DD does look, it can be quite daunting if some girls appear very judgemental (even I noticed the looks!) or just ignore the prospective new girl. A parent on their own won't really get a feel for the dynamics of the school, but making a short list is helpful. It is really difficult if the child would really prefer not to move. Our move was subject driven and, eventually, not a need for co-ed. DD wanted the move. After a lengthy trawl, (5 co-ed and 1 girls' school) DD/we realised that the girls' school was way out ahead on the subjects DD wanted. The school also had to take dance seriously and this was surprisingly difficult to find in co-ed schools.

My DD1 also had an offer from a more exciting school for the 6th form. Her existing school was not planning to offer a subject she needed at A level. In the end her school offered the A level so she stayed put. Possibly the correct decision but not sure we could have forced the move against her will. When her school was undecided about it's A level offering, the alternative school looked great but after the A level field became equal, friendships became more important. The whole issue is a challenge though because an unhappy child may not do as well as a happy one!

[Molio]

And MN :)

[Molio]

Possibly slightly difficult politically on this one though bojorojo. sendsummer has got in on the head - it needs to be spun very positively to this DD, so a visit to a school where girls don't even look up from their phones could be an own goal. I think the mum would need to test the water first and only take the DD to somewhere which could be presented as really quite exciting. The DD likes her own school/ friends/ home and so far the idea of a move hasn't even been broached, except to a small number of other adults.

[bojorojo]

We took DD to the schools we visited . If it was a non starter then only one journey necessary. Probably not possible to have too many schools on the list if DD is in tow. However a whiz around Oxford would be possible. The Royal Latin School at Buckungham has application submission dates between 24-28 February 2016 so much later than most independent schools.

[Molio]

It wouldn't be for 2016 Peter so I think she'd be ok. Yes I noticed you had some creative ideas for your DD! Good luck! The timeline for MCS says October in the year preceding the year of entry so I guess the mum goes to speak to the HTs and look around fairly soon, with a view to signing up in the autumn. I'm assuming that parents quite often have an initial visit without the DC in question?

[PeterTavy]

Are you enquiring for Sept 2016 entry or Sept 2017 entry?
I ask only because we have been looking too and have noticed that schools in our region (I think you're near me) tend to have late application deadlines for Sixth form entry in contrast to ones farther afield whose deadlines are either imminent or have already passed. Your friend may need to get her skates on!

[Molio]

Thanks so much GoMilou. The friend and I have a great deal in common and pretty little Victorian terraces are one of them, with no disrespect to the second house posted by 1805 :) Very, very useful indeed.

[GoMilou]

That post is for your family friends, of course. It's been a while since your first post that I completely forgot you are asking for somebody else.

[GoMilou]

Molio

If you like pretty little late Victorian houses, check out Bostock Road in Abingdon. It's near Albert Park and SHSK and Abingdon schools are on your doorstep.

Houses on Park Crescent and Park Road are larger and expensive as anything.

We recently moved to South Oxfordshire from France for private schools for our 3 yr old DD and looked around a lot of schools and villages as well as Abingdon and Oxford.

[roguedad]

I think the Abingdon-SHSK pairing has it about right. We know more about the music and drama scene and their is a lot of collaboration - e.g. SHSK girls joined the choir when Abingdon did their Sheldonian Xmas concert, lots of chat on the shared buses etc. Some shared classroom teaching in the 6th form. But there is also just enough separation during the day to allow some other stuff to flourish that might not survive the pressures of full co-ed. I thought the Brighton Head was talking utter bollocks by the way. There are huge benefits in allowing kids to develop their interests and pick their subjects without worrying what the other half thinks of of them, or being told that physics isn't for girls or whatever.

And Oxford is sodding expensive - more so than London by price/local earnings.

[sendsummer]

bojorojo you are right about the wide area that pupils come from but my impression is that any hanging about after school and organised social events tend to be arranged for central Oxford.
Quite a lot of overseas pupils do tend to make the effort to mix. In any case I imagine a lot of the socialising by the day pupils is separate from the boarders after school hours.
It will be difficult to get a feel for the girls at MCS and their sociability since they also will be new.

[bojorojo]

We do hear of the disadvantages of a boys only education - from Clarissa Farr, High Mistress of St Paul's Girls School. She has been very vocal on the dubious "qualities" of some boys who come from boys only schools. It has long been the case that some boys' schools introduced girls to civilise the boys! (Ha!). I was never sure I wanted this for my girls. Neither did I want them to have unflattering nicknames from the boys or be marked out of 10 for their sex appeal! All true examples when girls join some boys schools in the 6th form - although not heard about this at MCS!

When a girl visits a school as a prospective 6th former, you do get a "feel" for how they will be regarded - by the other girls! Even in co-ed schools. My DD expressed a preference for co-ed but was looked up and down very visibly to see if she "checked out", was ignored by some girls who barely raised their eyes from their phones when she walked in, and graciously welcomed by others. You do get a feel of where will suit, and where will not! Yes, girls schools do recruit into the 6th form but it is also true that many boarding schools will have larger number of overseas students arriving in the 6th form who do not socialise very much.

Unless someone lives in an expensive area of Oxford, it is a lottery where the children nearby will go to school. The Oxford independent schools recruit from a wide area so a best friend might be from Bicester or Thame or even from Bucks!

[Abraid2]

The new girls in sixth form are often welcomed enthusiastically, has been my experience.

[GoMilou]

The headteacher of Headington has responded to a comment from the headteacher of Brighton College who has suggested single-sex education for girls is "a deeply unrealistic world". Article in today's Guardian.

This is pure sexism, why don't we ever hear of the disadvantages of boys-only education.