Private school - extra costs

[Dilbertdoes]

My DD is currently at state secondary. We are in a difficult financial situation, indefinitely. She's taken the 13+ exam at a private boarding school that would really suit her and has been offered a scholarship and a big bursary, so we would have to pay almost no school fees. This is a great opportunity for her, but I've read a few things on MN warning about all the "extras" of private school. Does anyone have any guidance on what kind of extras we would be likely to come across, to what extent we could get away with her not having the extras, and the kind of costs involved? I appreciate that all schools are different, but it would be great to get some ballpark guidance before I decide whether to discuss this issue with the school. I'd obviously prefer not to have to.

So if you agreeded to send your DC to said school. You expect to pay that amount. What the school does with your money from there on is not your concern.

I agree with this entirely.

As payers of full fees I certainly would not begrudge some of that money being used to fund bursaries for other children (although some parents clearly do!) However, if a school were to rely on this as the sole revenue source to fund bursaries it would both severely limit the number of bursaries which could be offered, and probably compromise the running of the school as well.

Schools we've been involved in have had separate bursary funds which are investment based or from specific sources ie. Church funded and go towards a discount for those qualifying pupils.

No. Assuming the above comment is aimed at me....I didn't begrudge some of it, I feel that 10% is too high. It is compromising the school because numbers are down and savings are being made which impinge on everyone. However, it is not my decision after I handed over my fees. For many years no-one knew bursaries were funded from fee income. They are hardly going to tell you this, are they? It was only when the number of bursaries greatly increased that parents started wondering where the money was coming from. Not just me, by the way!

Comparing fees of a girls day/boarding boarding school in the South, with no male alumni, and Manchester Grammar is clearly looking at apples and pears! If I had my time again, for a number of reasons, I would have sent my DDs elsewhere. But you don't know about everything when you sign on the dotted line. If you are getting boarding for £24,000 a year, Kenlee, well done.

Hello OP

Something similar has happened to us, quite often you will find that the uniform isn't always so expensive. I know at dds school it isn't any more so than state, in fact cheaper if you'll believe that.
Have you checked whether such a high bursary carries any entitlement to help with uniform. If it is a charity school it may well do.

"For many years no-one knew bursaries were funded from fee income. They're hardly going to tell you this are they?"
Their accounts will tell you what they do with their income, including any info about bursaries, we get sent an overview of the accounts every year. I'm aware they make dry reading and that many probably don't read them (my DH always reads them very carefully) but they are worth casting a quick eye over or getting a more interested relative to give you a quick break down, not only do they tell you where your fee money is actually being spent but also how as importantly in this day and age who solvent or not the school is.

We didn't get accounts every year. I have never had accounts from prep schools or senior schools.

Comparing fees of a girls day/boarding boarding school in the South, with no male alumni, and Manchester Grammar is clearly looking at apples and pears!

Errr, Withington girls school does not have a male alumni . I didn't just compare one school, I compared two (a boys and a girls) and did state that I was only discussing day schools because that is all that we have locally. I have since looked at other schools and most of them seem to have funding streams for their bursary funds other than fee income. One even states that where external charity funding is applicable they will apply for this on the families behalf.
It actually isn't difficult to investigate and find out how bursaries are funded at a particular school, if you failed to do that and begrudge fees being used to fund bursaries then that is entirely your own fault.
Most families on bursaries only get part bursaries so they are still putting money into the schools coffers which it might otherwise be without (not all private schools are fully subscribed). If a school has 20 places in a class and only 17 full fee paying students then it makes sense for them to offer bursaries to fill the other three places, even if those 3 places are at an average of 50% bursary. Some money is better than no money.
If a school is offering bursary places despite being fully subscribed with full fee paying parents then the school is doing so because it can see an advantage in having the bursary students.
I feel that you are projecting your own dissatisfaction with a specific school onto this thread and are assuming that the majority of schools are run in the same way and that the majority of parents feel the same way that you do. It's nice to see several full fee paying parents on the thread who have specifically stated that they don't feel the same as you and don't begrudge part of fee income supporting the bursary funds.

Interesting Milly I thought this was standard nowadays, they are of course also available on line and often details money spent on bursaries.

Also, there are many many schools that offer full boarding for around £24k per year. Outside of the south east fees in the £20-£25k is the norm for full boarding. Kenlees school fees are not unusually low.

Are there? Every school I've ever looked at anywhere n the UK wants at least 30k.

Milly actually my 'begrudging' comment was not aimed at you, but was more a reference to happy saying that her friend, who is an Eton mum, had grumbled about it. Judging from Tony Little's letter last summer, in which he specifically reassured parents that bursaries are not paid for out of current fees, presumably she is not the only one!

I don't think a school will send out copies of their accounts, but they can easily be found on their website I would imagine.

There are many much less than 30k. I don't know how far or extensively you have looked. Off the top of my head I can think of several girls schools whose full school including boarding fees are much less than 30k at senior level- Truro high school, Malvern st James, Adcote. I'm sure if I did an internet search I could quickly find many more. Average full boarding fees last year were £27,600, I remember it being that figure because it was the first time average boarding fees exceeded average income of £26k

Indrid Win Coll sends parents an annual report thing, in it there is a break down of the accounts. Obviously it doesn't break done the spending on paper clips, oars and eggs but it does details quite few things including where money comes from; fees, donations etc and where the money goes including how much is spent on bursaries and how that money is raised.

,Isthis I have no problem accepting that you can find fees for £27600 although I suppose I was thinking £30k with extras but I very much doubt you'll find many with fees of "£20-25k as the norm for full boarding" (senior) anywhere in the UK.
Of course this begs a question what do you get for that extra £8-10k a year? Some costs are fairly fixed, teachers wages are a very big part of the budget of course and over the years I've often heard heads state that they're raising the fees to enable them to pay top wages to attract the best staff, but what don't you get for £8-10k less it's not just swimming pools and 300 acres of manicured lawns. Full boarding is expensive you need supervision 24/7, I know some schools employ grad students to do this especially on Sundays rather than teachers, others are now employing non qualified nurses in their medical centres especially over night, but these saving are pretty small in reality but where else do you save money? As most of these schools are charities they not for profit so the extra 8- 10k per pupil is not going to share holders. I'm pretty convinced it's not food, kids are £35k+ pa schools are not tucking into foie gras everyday a week whist those in £25k pa schools eat bargain basement chicken nuggets.

I haven't looked throughout the country but fees at dds school are 31k atm, due to rise whenever they usually do, annually, I think.
We tasted the food ourselves, nothing prepared especially for us, what the dc usually have and it was fine, with plenty of choice. Not french cuisine, but certainly healthy, nutritious. I asked the dc what it was like on a long term basis and they said there are a few dishes they steer away from but on the whole they were satisfied.

I don't know happy I have relatives whose children are in boarding schools costing £24k (not eating bargain basement chicken nuggets) but I have no personal experience of boarding fees and therefore extra add ons myself.

Win Coll has one of the highest if not the highest fees in the UK the food is at best ok in the past it's been notoriously awful . The fees definitely are paying for caviar and truffles every lunch time.
I'm not casting assertions on cheaper schools by the way just wondering out loud what the difference is between the cheapest and the most expensive. Is it tangible, smaller classes perhaps at the very expensive end, my DS's biggest class is 18 most are 10-12, as the school is full this obviously requires a high pupil teacher ratio and wages especially by the time you add in employers tax/NI contributions are pretty hefty part of any schools budget. Bigger schools with 300 acres of land, Mediaeval building, rowing lakes etc require more infra structure, maintenance staff, HR, secretaries events organisers etc, perhaps parents paying top whack routinely expect free wine and nibbles at parents evening, free leavers balls, and manicured gardens and lawns.

Happy I think location is one difference that is very significant when it comes to fee level. As I have said, I have no personal experience of boarding schools but just looking at the vast difference in day fees: Withington girls school is consistently in the top 20 of league tables, has decent grounds and charges £10k a year. I dont think any London based top 20 school would charge anywhere near that level of fees (probably double or thereabouts). Similary Manchester Grammar school has very extensive grounds and very grand buildings and a good reputation (not in league tables as they don't subscribe but results are excellent), their class size is 12 and they charge £11.5k pa annum for fees.
It would be interesting to see a comparison between London based boarding schools and Northern based boarding schools to see if the fee difference is the same as it is for day schools.

I know that for the junior school it is 8,900 per term. They do have a good chef to boot plus full time staff and qualified nurse.

obviously I haven't addEd on the extras. We think its a bargin as the school really had started to bring DD out of her shell. She is also beginning to enjoy lessons. So I don't think it is a matter of putting your kid in the most expensive school but rather a case of placing her in one that suits her most.

Here are the fees for Rugby, Gordonstoun you'll struggle to get much further North than this, Win Coll and SPS there's little difference between them in terms of fees.

Your right Kenlee it's about the right fit for your DC.

Or Durham school which is in the North East
www.durhamschool.co.uk/fees-and-charges.asp

Obv fees vary considerably.

Just wondering if anyone on here has tried state boarding schools. I know there is one in Lancaster and you only pay for the boarding element and they seem to offer quite a lot. It could be an option for those who want boarding but can't afford the extortionate fees.

I'll answer your original question, Dilbert. Both of mine are at boarding school, neither have school uniform, so I can't help you with that one. The unofficial uniform appears to be T shirt, jeans and hoodie or thick tights, shorts and hoodie. Primark is worn as much as Abercrombie or other high end brands.

At DD1's school, the full boarding fees include all weekend outings and the ski trip at half term. We have had very few "extra" school trips, mostly being of the local variety, so £20 to go to some nature reserve around 20 miles away, and this includes the lunch out and coach there and back. There was one compulsory trip, an outward bound one, at the beginning of 9th grade, which cost around £400 for the week, including coach there and back, and all meals. Other trips this year, which are all optional, include Ypres, Moscow and Florence. They are entirely optional, about one third to one half of the kids will go, so no stigma attached if you don't go.

DD2's school does local day trips, which cost around £20, and a 3 day trip to Ypres, which was £135. All compulsory. There is also a language exchange next year - if the boarders go on this, the exchange child comes and spends a week in the boarding house with them. But it's not compulsory.

DD1's school fees are extortionate (think £40K plus for full boarding), but fortunately, as part of my expat package, I get a chunk of these paid for. I am quite sure we are the poorest family in the school, probably by quite a long stretch, but it seems to have made no difference to DD1's friends (they are all quite nerdy, like her).