What is a 'leafy comp' 'good/outstanding comp'?

[MovingBack]

I see this term referred to on MN on lots of threads - what is the definition of such a school please? I can grasp the meaning (I think) but I'm not sure if it's metaphorical or there is in fact some objective criteria? Do posters mean they are Ofsted good/outstanding or something else? I've spent a lot of time living away and in my day a comp was the alternative to the grammar school but I'm not sure what they are when most areas don't have a grammar school these days? How will I know if my local schools fall into this leafy comps/good/outstanding category? Is it based on Ofsted or something else?

Apologies in advance if it really is just the Ofsted category they have been placed in rather than something more complex

[Blu]

It's all in the stats, as KIllasandra says.

The Dept of Ed Schools Performance tables tell you how well the school educated children of 3 ability bands - do they make expected progress etc.

You can have a school that has very high %GCSEs but it may nevertheless not be supporting all it's students to be making expected progress. Or a school may have high numbers of low ability intake, but be enabling them all to exceed expected progress, while a small number of high achievers also break expectations but till cannot raise the overall %.In this example the second school would be the much better school, even though it's overall % is lower.

Leafy comp - largely a social construct, (m/c intake in housing of low enough density to enjoy the odd tree - e.g Not Council Estates) and a school in which a slight of stature violin-playing boy is thought to be safe from being 'eaten alive'.

[Poisonwoodlife]

OFSTED have for some time now been saying that it is some of the "leafy comps" that are producing the worst outcomes for their poor pupils. Complacency can creep in when they are assured of a largely middle class intake, or they simply do not have the help and expertise that initiatives like the London challenge built up in schools on how to enable poor pupils to achieve. The inner city schools in cities throughout the UK have transformed themselves from some of the worst achieving schools to some of the most effective. This is from 2013. www.gov.uk/government/news/too-many-of-englands-poorest-let-down-by-education-system Here in an affluent suburb of London with a very high proportion of parkland and tree lined roads we have schools still rated as requiring improvement largely because of their failure to keep certain disadvantaged groups in school and achieving any qualifications at all.

[mummytime]

Umm I grew up on a large Council Estate - we had a lot of trees.

But I wouldn't describe the Comps as leafy - as that is code for MC.

A school can be good because it gets good results with a truly comprehensive in take or a deprived one. Ideally it is also providing opportunities for the less academic pupils. It should also ideally be stretching all bright pupils including those from deprived backgrounds or with SEN. Ideally it also offers a wide and balanced curriculum.

[motherinferior]

Blu, try a tiny 11 year old girl who gets As and plays the trumpet

Mention that your child is doing Latin and leafiness is also automatically assumed. A school from which kids go to Oxford to do Latin must be even more verdant.

[meadowquark]

I have a question. I am planning to move to a "leafy" area and to send my DC to "leafy comp" with outstanding results (including low attainers).

To be honest, I worry that we will be odd one out being mixed race and an immigrant from continental Europe. I would much rather prefer a religious inner city comp with also outstanding results and much greater mix of pupils, but unfortunately we do not meet admission criteria. So for the sake of the best education I am choosing a "leafy comp" over any "bog standard comp".

I am being a snob by worrying that MC parents of a leafy comp will be snobs? EAL in that school is 3% and FSM are about 3%, low number of minorities, too, and though we are none I pray that my DC fit in well.

[yolofish]

ooh can I play? my kids go to a leafy secondary modern, in fact it is not just leafy, but also extremely muddy... naice middle class immediate catchment area plus rural kids bussed in daily and all sorts in between. No one has yet been eaten alive as far as I am aware, in fact anyone with any sort of talent at all is celebrated. They still appear to be quite naice children with a great line in swearing as a back up and enormous amounts of creativity.

[rabbitstew]

It is most definitely snobby to have something against bogs. You can get peat from bogs. Leaves delay trains.

[Elibean]

Ohhh this is a fun thread: I've always wondered quite how to fit dds' primary into the leafy/non-leafy boxes!

On the one hand, we're in a leafy (literally and MC-wise) London borough.

On the other hand, the school is in the least leafy (MC-wise) bit of it, and has always been considered the poor relative in the past.

We have lots of trees and more space than any of the other local primaries.

But we have high levels of EAL and SEN, and still more FSM than the other local primaries.

are we leafy? Aren't we leafy? Are we perhaps just budding? And the local state secondary, which is on the up but had very un-naice reviews till recently, is surrounded by (real) leaves - is it leafy?!?

[rabbitstew]

Sounds boggy to me.

[Poisonwoodlife]

eli Whilst you may not be in the most leafy part of the borough you have to admit it is the Farrow and Ball end

[motherinferior]

I don't think those count as real leaves, Elibean. They are but rustling chimeras.

[mummytime]

My DCs leafy school has plenty of mixed race, and lots of European families, admittedly its not totally leafy as it also has a council estate as part of its catchment. The mixed race and european children do tend to be middle class though.

I helped in a non-leafy school and it was pretty fabulous (I even thought about transferring one of mine there).

[clary]

We are well leafy here. Small East Mids city and we live on the edge of it (walk 20 mins and you are in the countryside with a National Trust property close at hand).

So the local comprehensive is totally leafy, as others say, few FSM, few members of ethnic minorities, very supportive parents, lots of music lessons, school stages a skiing trip for £1400 (I gasped so you can!).

Doesn't make it so much a better school than any other tho.

BTW OP, there are relatively few areas in the UK where the grammar school system is still in place (where I come from is one of them) so the vast majority of children (whatever you read on MN) will go to a nearby comprehensive. I guess if there are grammars, the alternative is a sec mod but I suppose they have a fancier name now.

[Needmoresleep]

I took it to mean effective selection by house prices. Somewhere naice, where affluent people live, aspirations are high, and where money will be spent on tutoring if results are not assured.

The assumption is that behaviour both inside and outside the classroom will be better. I am not sure this is always the case. I grew up in what what effectively a London suburb, though in Surrey, and on the right side of town. About half the teenagers in our street ended up with drug problems. All a bit hidden then, but still extra-ordinary.

Gove used to be concerned that some of these schools were coasting. That they could do better for their relatively straightforward intake than they were.

[sunnydayinmay]

Ofsted took great offence to our trees. Apparently the fact we had trees meant that we had an above average ability intake...

[Feellikescrooge]

Well we are certainly not leafy, all we have is astro turf, and we only have about three scrubby trees. We have 40% EAL and 35% FSM. But we also got 79% 5A to C inc En andMaths and 92% 5A to C. So you don't need trees!!!! You just need lovely pupils and wonderful parents!

[ToffeeCaramel]

It's strange that free schools don't have to publish their results at all. I looked one up on the dfe performance site and there were no results/progress shown at all. Just n/a for everything. How do people compare them to other schools?

[ChocolateWombat]

'Leafy' refers to a school which is in an area which has wide roads, probably with grass verges and trees planted along the road. These are areas of older housing (perhaps built up to WW2) which is also larger - so think detached 4 bed houses with decent sized front gardens and good sized plots. Could be Victorian or Edwardian villas or larger 1930s style houses.
When towns were planned, there was social zoning, so larger houses, aimed at professional types were grouped together. They were given wider roads and leafy surroundings.
The 'leafy' schools are usually older,well established schools. They are often Church schools, so a Church was also often in the affluent area too. When you are talking about Secondary schools, you are often talking about ones which were previously Grammars, built in the affluent areas.
Chances are that these leafy areas also have parks or open spaces nearby.

In my mind, these leafy areas exist in both urban and non-urban areas. So London will have 'leafy' schools, often in the expensive housing areas, as will some villages.

If you think of large towns/Citities, there is often a wide road, with trees planted on the wide pavements, heading out of town, with large Victorian/Edwardian houses along it......and somewhere along the road is the 'leafy' school.

[ChocolateWombat]

Oh and by the way, the school itself may not have many trees or green spaces itself. It is the residential area which is 'leafy'. Think of the cramped but desirable state schools somewhere like Clapham, or in the affluent parts of cities such as Manchester and Leeds. Perhaps picture the setting of private day schools (not most Boarding schools which tend to be in the country) in the big cities and you might see there is not much space for playing fields etc, but these schools are certainly what you might call 'leafy'.

[ChocolateWombat]

To get into these 'leafy' schools, which are heavily over-subscribed, you need to live very nearby......ie in the large, expensive detached houses (or perhaps in the smaller Victorian terraces which are off the main roads....but still very expensice) .....so this often excludes those on FSM etc. so culturally,such schools become associated with the professional middle classes. Sometimes the schools themselves are truly ugly buildings, with lots of add-ons and no space....but some people would still give their right arm to get their kids in there.

[Killasandra]

Toffee - free schools do have to publish data. The school is probably too new to have any data. It takes 5 years to get your first cohort through GCSEs.

[TalkinPeace]

"leafy" comps are the ones that struggling private school parents slag off as having sky high house prices

the school that DS is still at is leafy but the catchment is so huge that that don't mattah

[ToffeeCaramel]

killasandra Oh yes, that does explain it. Thanks

[Iwantacampervan]

The free school near us has year 9 as its oldest year - no results for a while.

We are not a grammar school area but have high schools and community colleges.