Y7 day 1: I'm already cross.

[PiqueABoo]

The [bleeps] threw two lots of CATs at them.

If you wanted to depress the results and also make them a bit unreliable, then I can't think of a better time i.e. when lots of the children are a teensy bit anxious to say the very least.

Can anyone talk me out of that view?

[intheenddotcom]

Very common, even when I went to school for CATs and aptitude tests to be done in first week so that you could quickly get into the right class.

CATS are better than SATS as they show cognitive ability better rather than just knowledge (and therefore are good for telling bright students apart from those who have just been taught to the test).

All the kids will have been in the same boat re: a little bit nervous. It may depress the results slightly (though CATS are pretty resilient to that imho) but it will not be any more unreliable than them done on any other day because of the type of thing they are testing.

[Dragonlette]

Our year 7s start tomorrow and will be doing reading and spelling tests in their first English lessons, and tables tests in their first Maths lessons, then next week they will be doing tests to level them in all sorts of things. We need to be able to cover our backs when children don't make "expected progress" because the primary schools have taught to the test, crammed really hard and managed to get overinflated SATs results.

[lordnoobson]

first day is a bit OTT

[OldBeanbagz]

I don't think it's that uncommon to be tested when they first start Y7.

My DD was when she started last year and the results were used for streaming Maths from day 1 and later for English & French. I don't think you can just rely on SATs results for that.

First day seems a little bit hard on them though.

[jaykay34]

I have twins starting Year 7 this week - they are going to different schools.

My daughter did her CAT tests on transition day - as far as I know, her school were the only school locally that did this. I would expect my son will do his on one of the first days back.

I wouldn't get worked up over it...most, if not all, schools will do CAT tests for new pupils...whether it's on transition day, first day or first week.

[PiqueABoo]

This isn't some world-ending worry, a day or two later with or without notice wouldn't have irritated me. I simply think it's unfriendly for their first day and bit odd to throw it at children on such an obviously stressful day if you want to maximise the reliability of the results.

• I'm not complaining about CATs because they're not news, just the timing.
  
  
• One day in July is different and seems sensible because they're still in the groove so to speak.
  
  
• "11+" was a quick place-holder for all selection exams around that age including the Bucks new-improved "tutor-proof" ones (can't think why everyone seems to quote that). All intelligence tests are subject to the "practise effect".
  
  
• FFT's research folk claim those results re. SATs and CATs and I'm not in a position to dispute them, but expect CEM etc. would have by now if they could. Note that's the fine points scores pegged to SATs marks.
  
  
• There is no setting here based on this. Maths has been initially set based on SATs and they don't set anything else in Y7.
  
  
• I have seen just one consequence hidden away somewhere re. how they use CAT scores to tick the Ofsted box for recognising their 'high ability' children and ensuring teachers provide sufficient challenge (there was a scathing comment about a school not knowing which children were 'high ability' in that Ofsted 'most able' report).
  
  
• DD also had maths and English lessons today. The former was set and the latter was mixed-ability and ermm... gentle, nothing much happened.

[Noodledoodledoo]

Our Yr 7's will have various tests with no or little warning in the first few days.

We don't/can't use SATS data alone as some students don't have any data due to Parents refusing to let students sit them, private schools not sitting them, school data not being passed on. A lot of primary schools hot house students for SATS so an apparent Level 6 student in May is more like a solid level 5. We use internal tests, CATS/Midyis, SATS to set students in some subjects.

If they all did it today - the anxiety will be equal.

Us secondary teachers are really evil - you have us for another 5-7 years get used to us!!!

[RufusTheReindeer]

I think the first day is a bit harsh too

Although ds2 is looking forward to doing the CATs...I worry about him

[HolidayPackingIsHardWork]

Reading this thread, what strikes me is that some posters are completely unsurprised, while obviously the OP never saw it coming.

...surely children whose parents realise this may be coming are at an advantage over children whose parents do not. It just sort of has the feeling of an insider advantage. Because, if it is your first child, and no one tells you, how would you know?

[Littleturkish]

At a school I taught in a few years ago, they tested on day one of year seven and towards the end of year nine. Hardly any movement. It really doesn't make a difference and is actually a nice start for many students. Tests shouldn't be stressful.

[HolidayPackingIsHardWork]

I was thinking more getting them to bed on time and encouraging a breakfast with some protein and complex carbs!

[Oakmaiden]

Holiday - hopefully you would do that anyway?

[steppemum]

actually I am with you op

ds started year 7 yesterday, he was pretty nervous, came home on a high having had a really nice day, no proper lessons, lots of getting to know, getting timetable etc. He has now calmed right down and is ready to face first lessons today.

If he went in today and had CAT test, he would be fine, but if he had had them yesterday it would have been pants.

first week, second day, in first few days, fine. But on day one? Bit mean I think.

[HolidayPackingIsHardWork]

Well of course Oakmaiden, but there are times everyone lets things slip. It's nice to know when you really shouldn't.

Pressuring a grumpy kid to eat an egg when they say they are nervous and just want a bit of white toast for instance is the kind of thing a reasonable parent might do on the first day thinking that the first day is going to be mostly orientation and "easing in." Not nice to find out that the child is taking a high stakes test. And frankly, a test that determines the child's academic setting for the first year of secondary, would be considered high stakes by most parents.

[IrianofWay]

It makes sense to me. SATS are not that reliable and many secondary schools don't take any notice of them. Ours did their CATs last June on one of the visit days they had to the new school. My youngest is not the most academic of children but he found them perfectly straightforward. They aren't difficult tests at all.

I guess you might have an issue with the timing but maybe they couldn't get all the children to the school last term.

[Picturesinthefirelight]

Dd didn't infirm me until weeks afterwards that she had CAT tests.

She was more interested in what she had for lunch & who was in her class.

[PiqueABoo]

@Coolas, you're quite persuasive. Good effort!

It's an OK-ish comp not selective. We don't have any selectives close enough except for super-selective that still seemed too distant, but maybe-just feasible at a pinch. DD is very bright and looked like a credible enough contender to contemplate the latter, but I simply couldn't stomach the prospect of sacrificing cheerful childhood for training to match the competition's. I think she will be much happier as a bigger fish in the local pond, but just can't help being sensitive about whether that was a wise decision and how far they'll rewind the (already capped at primary) curriculum clock.

Her summary of English began "All we did was..." and if they were trying to figure out the children I hope they’re good at it because only the one (older, long-experienced) primary teacher got her measure and those teachers had her all day, every day. She’s a bit of a chameleon, quite analytical and strategic in public, routinely "holds back" in order to fit in and that has worked very well for her in social terms. However we’ve had a few too many “Well, I didn’t expect that!” moments from teachers who apparently didn’t see past a bit of a construct partly based on DD’s view of their very own expectations.

@Picturesinthefirelight, on their transition day in the summer term it turned out that DD was the only girl from her primary school class in a form without any familiar company. All the other children in her form clustered together based on their source primary schools and she was left to sit on a desk by herself. She saw those little looks you can’t hide on hearing something like that and now appears to be intent on proving it isn’t problem, thus likely won’t say anything much about social aspects for a while. So we got very little of the social side (presumably to minimise the risk of any parental concern) and some long, boring stories about specific CATs questions.

Normally it's the other way around i.e. academic and other achievements are forgotten in favour of social stuff.

[Picturesinthefirelight]

My dd knew no one at her new school but most children were in the same boat - a few knew each other.

Considering she previously went to a private academic junior school I'm very impressed with her secondary. They've picked up her strengths & weaknesses very well - picked up on a n SEN which explains a lot & differentiate extremely well challenging the most able & supporting the less able.

[PiqueABoo]

@tiggytape, I did think that might be the case, that it would be more data driven regardless of whether you're hands-up girl, so yes that confirmation is a consolation.

DD holds back, avoids limelight, largely because she doesn't want to be seen as boastful, a show off etc. Tell her to go stand in a spotlight and that suits her because she can perform and blame the teacher for leaving her no choice but to do it.

[BitOutOfPractice]

I think you've hit the nail on the head with this statement OP "[I} just can't help being sensitive about whether that was a wise decision" - try not to second guess everything the school does and be determined that they are in the wrong before you even start. That way lies madness!