Anybody else watching the letterbox, waiting for appeal result letter?

[LucasNorthCanSpookMeAnytime]

It's been a week and still nothing :( It's driving me crazy, I can't seem to do anything except watch for the postman all day!

[prh47bridge]

This confirms that you need to take this case to the EFA. The clerk's notes suggest that the appeal panel failed to consider your case properly. It is, of course, possible that the appeal panel did give proper consideration and the clerk is rubbish at writing decision letters but the only way to find out is to go to the EFA. If they agree that the panel hasn't considered the case properly they will order a fresh hearing with a different panel.

[appealtakingovermylife]

Thanks for your reply prh, I'm glad it's not just me.
So what do I need to do now? I really wanted some closure last Thursday but feel like I'm back to square one:(

My dp tonight said I "need to let it go " but I disagree.
If I believed that the panel had taken everything into account and still felt that the school's case outweighed mine then I would have accepted that.

I am now faced with my asc/anxious child with 3 weeks left in a primary School that he loves, dreading going to secondary school because he's petrified of the travelling alone issue.
There are 2 local failing academies with horrendous reputations that he could go to and where loads of the kids that have made his life a misery over the years attend.
We're not spoilt for choice here, many single sex schools which wouldn't suit ds and I honestly don't know where he's going to go.
My heart is telling me to fight this but my head knows I've got to find him another school, doesn't help that I live in one borough and both the appeal school and allocated school are in another so neither LA seems to be helping. The borough where I live say that they don't really know the schools involved and the borough where the schools are say I should contact my home authority.
Secondary schools in home authority with the exception of one are in the worst schools league tables:( 6 out of 7.

[prh47bridge]

You can lodge your complaint with the EFA online here.

[potbellyroast]

appeal I am a clerk to appeal panels and I would say complain!

Our Panel members are known to be quite lenient but from what you have said in this thread you would more than likely have had a successful appeal.

The only reason you may not be successful with our panels would be if they had to rank cases if they felt the school could only accommodate x number of pupils.

I'm new to this topic and I am in total shock with how some of you describe the hearings!

[appealtakingovermylife]

Prh, thanks, I got most of the way through the efa form and then it asked me to upload a copy of the decision letter, my kindle wouldn't accept it from the clerk last week so I don't know how I'm going to do this?
I do feel like I've got to challenge this, even if the efa don't agree then at least I can lay it to rest.
Potbellyroast ,thanks for taking the time to messsge, I just feel very let down by the panel to be honest, we had a good case with medical evidence and supporting letters, the chair had commented how impressed he was by my written statement but I did tell people afterwards that I felt it went "too well" looking back now, the panel did not ask me 1 question!
How can the clerk fail to understand why I'm so upset by it all? He was there!
I rang him Tuesday, he was very cold towards me( previously been chatty/very friendly) and literally said that he didn't get why I was so upset and when I mentioned that the decision was literally 5 lines long he got all defensive and said that everything was taken into account but as I said to him " that's not how it's worded on the decision part " it only mentions the mixed sex element etc, he basically said there's nothing I can do, the panel have made their decision.
Shall I pursue this? My doctor has given me more anxiety tablets, this has literally taken its toll on me:(

[HPparent]

As a panellist I am shocked that they did not ask you any questions. Even for hopeless cases I ask questions. In a case like this one which could go either way I would definitely ask questions to confirm one way or another.

Assuming your letters named the school in question I thought your case was relatively strong. I have no idea how strong the other cases were, but I think the panel at least owed you an explanation as to why the letter from the Ed Psych and the hospital were not strong enough evidence.

I think giving you false hope by saying how well you stated your case and giving personal anecdotes is nasty to say the least. We sometimes say something like "thank you for your clear presentation" but nothing that can cause an appellant to think they have succeeded especially as we don't make a final decision until all the cases have been heard!

[appealtakingovermylife]

HP, I've contacted the efa and am now concentrating on looking for another school for ds, unfortunately, won't be Catholic which is what we really wanted but time is ticking until the schools break up and I stand by what I said about the travelling concerns, he will not be going to the allocated school.
I've got absolutely nothing to lose, I heard on a thread from last year which I recently found that 2 children were admitted to appeal school via Maladministration appeals ( Sept 13 entry) I wonder what happened there as they used the same panel.
Judging by the clerk's handwriting on the envelope, it will be extremely difficult to read his notes. I can't let this go now, I've had a week to think about it and in my opinion, the way the decision is written leads me to believe that the most important reasons for wanting this school have been overlooked.
I will also be mentioning the panel, I take it that's not normal?
Thanks for your reply:)

[appealtakingovermylife]

The letters mentioned the appeal school, apart from the ed psych but hers was very detailed and thorough and she made a lot of reference to "the appeal school " but didn't name it.

[HPparent]

I think it is bad practice to use the same Chairperson and panellists for the same school year on year (though not forbidden). It would make me think that they lacked impartiality. They could certainly do with some training given their behaviour.

If the clerk's notes are illegible they should provide a transcript quite frankly.

If it was clear from the Ed Psych's letter which school she was talking about I don't think it matters that it was not named.

Sometimes we see letters for example from the GP which say something like "Ms X considers the school is best for her son because of...." which don't carry much weight, but if someone is giving their professional opinion and stating why only that school can meet the needs it does.

Headteachers letters are common, letters from SENCO less so and Ed Psych's letters are rare in my experience and I think there has to be a good reason to disregard them. It could be that the panel thought you did have a strong case but other appellants had stronger ones and they could not admit all.

I don't think the panels I sit on are pushovers and we have allowed appeals in very similar circumstances to that you describe.

[prh47bridge]

I agree with HPparent. Having the same appeal panel year in, year out calls into question their impartiality. And the letter from the Ed Psych makes a strong case. It is possible the successful appellants all had stronger cases but it seems unlikely.

[appealtakingovermylife]

Thanks to both of you, it helps to get insight from others, I feel like I'm going crazy!
I e-mailed the EFA this morning and they have just rang me.
The lady is going to send me the paper forms out tonight:) and was very nice.
So what route am I going down? My thoughts are 1-the decision making process of the panel 2- the comments from the panel members
Any thoughts on how I was informed of the decision, ie a very poor quality photocopied letter with neither my son's or my name on, then to wait a further 2 days for the paperwork. The Clark commented on the Wednesday when I rang him to see if the letters had been sent and he said yes and there were 8 allowed but he thought it would have been 12!! Strange thing to say. And lastly, when I was shown up to the appeal room by the rep, I was outside left with a lady so made "small talk" as a bit of a wait, she was the deputy head!!! I obviously didn't know that until we went in:(
At the end I was told to go outside and wait for the school rep to take me downstairs and out, she never came, I was stood outside the door with the deputy head again!! I then realised the rep wasn't coming and made my way to the stairs and she was coming up them with the next parent!
Any advice with how I pursue with the EFA would be greatly appreciated and sorry it's so long.

[eddiemairswife]

Was the Deputy Head presenting the case for the school? If so, the clerk should have ensured that you were not left with her unless the the clerk was there with you.

[appealtakingovermylife]

Hi, yes she was! The clerk appeared just before we went in but before that he was in a different room and came out and announced we were to go in. I felt so stupid, I was nervous and was saying how I'd had no sleep, was nervous, felt sick etc and she just smiled politely and said nothing. However after waiting with her again at the end I apologised( don't know why ) for in my eyes " grilling her " and she made small talk and said she wished me luck. At the time I didn't think anything of it.
So I gather I shouldn't have been left alone with her either before or after?

[appealtakingovermylife]

And just to add, she said "you did very well "
Feel like our whole appeal was a farce.

[eddiemairswife]

No, you definitely should not have been left alone with her . You must mention it in your letter to the EFA. It will probably be considered to be maladministration and should lead to a fresh appeal with different panel members and clerk.

[prh47bridge]

There is nothing in the appeal code to say you must not be left alone with the person presenting the school's case. Neither of you must be alone with the panel but nothing wrong with the two of you being alone. I have been to many appeals where the school's representative met the parents and escorted them into the hearing.

However, what you have described is the school's representative taking you to the appeal room then leaving you outside with the deputy head. You then leave the hearing and are told to wait for the rep. If the rep was in the hearing representing the school that is two clear breaches of the Appeals Code.

I will get back later with some further thoughts.

[prh47bridge]

I would raise a number of points:

• they are using the same panel as last year which calls the panel's impartiality into account

• they did not question you at all during the appeal which again calls the panel's impartiality into account

• they made comments that gave you false hope. That is a bit of a push as it is not strictly against the Appeals Code but it is extremely poor practise

• there is no evidence that the panel gave proper consideration to expert ed psych evidence stating that your daughter needed a place at this school

The way the decision has been communicated to you was poor and may be in breach of the Appeals Code so I would raise that but don't spend too much time on it. The EFA is unlikely to give you a fresh hearing just because the communication was rubbish.

You mention the school's rep but you also say the Deputy Head was presenting the case so I'm not entirely clear who did what. If the Deputy Head was presenting the case, what was the school's rep doing? However, if anyone involved with presenting the school's case was alone with the appeal panel and clerk at any stage that is a direct breach of the Appeals Code so you should definitely raise that. If that is what happened it is enough on its own to justify a fresh hearing. Before you entered the room the only people who should have been in there are the panel members and the clerk. When you left the room everyone else should have left at the same time apart from the panel members and the clerk.

[appealtakingovermylife]

Thanks prh, the clerk told me that the chair ( also previously Lord mayor back in the day ) has sat on this schools panel for the last five years though I'm not entirely sure on the other two.
When we received the names of the panel members it said Mr x, Mr y and Mrs z. Mrs z was not there and it was another lady.
The ed psych letter was extremely strong and I'm surprised that held no weight. I emailed her yesterday to inform her of the situation and am sure if it got to a re-appeal she would help us again.
Just to clarify the school rep

[appealtakingovermylife]

Sorry... pressed send by accident!
The school rep was just there to escort parents up to the appeal room and out again (or in my case-not)
The presenting officer was the deputy head and that's who I was left standing outside the room with twice.
So I've really got to focus on how they came to their decision, the panels behaviour and possibly the way it was communicated.
I hope thats enough.
I'm sure the EFA have their own way of investigating though and its ultimately their decision.
Like I previously said, 2 Maladministration appeals were successful last year so the EFA will be aware of the school.
Thanks again for your thoughts and support.

[appealtakingovermylife]

Just to add, the only question they asked ( the lady panel member spoke ) was to ask what the allocated school was, this concerns me because in my original statements I called it "the allocated school" but in the letters from the Alder hey specialist its mentioned several times, so they would have already known that.
Also after seeing the doctor in May, she wrote the second letter which I received about 10 days before the hearing, took straight to clerks office who said he would give it to the panel,it really stressed the schools name, saying my ds is extremely anxious about the traveling issues and I wonder if they even read it now.
I wonder why it questions their impartiality if they asked me no questions, sorry to question that but I need to understand it myself:)

[prh47bridge]

Failure to question isn't directly against the Appeals Code but it can give the impression that the panel has made up its mind before the hearing, which they are clearly not supposed to do.

[appealtakingovermylife]

ok, thanks, as always.

[appealtakingovermylife]

I would be really interested to hear from anybody who's had any dealings with the EFA, am expecting their paperwork tomorrow to start the complaints process, thanks.

[prh47bridge]

Yes, I've had dealings with the EFA. In my experience they are less helpful to parents than the LGO but don't let that put you off. They do still find in favour of parents in a significant proportion of cases.

[DeWee]

Can I ask the experts a question for a friend?

I don't know the full details but the basic facts are:
Local large juniors last year (current year 3) no appeals were upheld.
This year (next year 3) around 15 appeals (all, I know for definite of 15) were just waved through (they were told then and there). I know one of the people appealing and their argument was basically "it's not fair", and I'm fairly certain there was no malpractice, nor has the PAN been formally raised.

Two questions:
My friend was one of last year's appeal: Is she able to make use of the fact they allowed all appeals this year?

Other question: I know that there were people (eg the number 1 and 2 on the waiting list) who chose not to appeal because they either thought they would get in off the waiting list, or because they thought they would have no chance, so didn't bother.
Do these people have any claim now-particularly the ones who thought they had a good chance off the waiting list and now have to wait for 16(or more) children to leave before they will admit?

I'm a little concerned because my ds is going into year 3, and there are around 33 in his class now, he has hearing problems which means he find smaller classes easier rather than larger. If they admit more (there were 38 on the waiting list) would they potentially have to go for a bulge class, rather than adding them to existing classes? What's the largest class size they would admit to junior level before moving to a bulge class. (there is a spare classroom so a bulge class could work)