Would you send your child to a grammar school ?

[HeGrewWhiskersOnHisChin]

This is going to be quite long and rambling but I wanted to find out how much of my own experiences are clouding my judgement.

Okay, where we live there are not any great schools unless you are in the correct feeder schools, which we aren't as we moved to the area after Reception.

I know people say that all the time, but it's true - I'm not a snob I promise!

There are a few grammar schools within a commutable distance, and after researching all the local schools, look like the best choice.

I say choice as they are not necessarily an option for us. DD is bright, on the top table (apparently), but as I said already we live in a really deprived area. Half the children don't even wear the uniform let alone turn up for school. If she were at a better performing school she might be more average, I don't know.

So anyway I was going to do a practice verbal and non-verbal reasoning test with her just to see if she had any natural aptitude or not, and then consider whether we should try for a grammar or not.

BUT... She doesn't want to go to a school like that, she wants to go to one with normal people.

Oh the irony! Her words are exactly I said to my very working class parents and my head teacher after turning down a place at a grammar school. My dad was angry but my mum let me make my own mind up.

Subsequently I went on to a 'normal' school and academically I achieved as well as I would have at the grammar, but but but I can't help thinking that if I'd have mixed with girls from the other school, I may have not ended up pregnant at 18 living in a council flat !

I know my DD is very easily led, even more so than me (she gets it from her dad's side) and I think when she goes to secondary school she'll be more interested in boys and makeup than getting As.

So what should I do?

I said it'd be long!

[curlew]

"Comprehensive or as the doomsayers say "secondary modern"

Comprehensive schools and secondary modern schools are completely different things.

[TheOriginalSteamingNit]

Visiting all available options always a good plan, yep - especially when one or other of you has strong feelings about any of them already.

I changed my perception of several schools after open evenings!

[Thisisaeuphemism]

We all want that for our kids I guess elibean but it's a big ask.

Ds went to a primary school that's now in special measures largely because it failed to challenge even the average kids. The bright kids were spectacularly let down.

He's now at at grammar school having a brilliant time.

[AbiRoad]

For those you say that at that stage it should be your decision what school she goes to, in theory that is right. But she has to pass the test and if she really does not want to go she will just deliberately fllunk it/refuse to do practice papers etc, so you will need to get her on side.
FWIW I went to grammar and loved it. My secretary at work (who is clearly very bright) got a grammar school offer but did not go becuase she wanted to stay with her friends but now regrets it and wishes her parents had overriden her choice.

[motherinferior]

Yep, you need comps for rugby and Latin and really hard maths. (Well, DD1's school doesn't do rugby, but the boys' school does. The girls' one is just putting them in for GCSE Latin in Y9.) It may not be leafy, but the kids do damn well.

[VerySmallSqueak]

I think if you have a daughter who is easily led,then a very positive thing to do would be to find some positive role models and work on developing her individuality and assertiveness.Then whatever she does she will be equipped to work hard and make sensible choices because of her own personal goals.

My 9 year old has told me she wants to do the 11 plus and go to the grammar,and asked me how she can do it.Her friends have told her she has to have extra work (ie tutoring).I have told her that all she needs to do is pay attention and work hard and we'll see what's what when it comes closer to the time.

If she works hard she can make her own choices.

[motherinferior]

Incidentally my daughter, and her friends, are all somewhat geeky. At a comp, yet.

A number of them are also rather nice-looking.

Not that I want to piss on your stereotypical chips or anything.

[MaddAddam]

My distinctly geeky (and to my mind beautiful but that may be parental prejudice) dds are blissfully happy at their local, non-leafy, rather socially squalid comp. There are plenty of geeky kids and hardworking clever kids, and all sorts of other odd and less odd kids there. And, crucially, for me, they haven't learned that some children are of a better calibre than others. They've learned that some children are better at some things than others, but not that some deserve more educational input and effort.

So no I wouldn't want them to be at a grammar instead.

[TheOriginalSteamingNit]

Oh why isn't there a 'like' button on mumsnet?

[HeGrewWhiskersOnHisChin]

I'm not saying all children from the local comp are orange (well maybe I did but it was an exaggeration ).

I meant that my DD will end up like the girls who are orange and more interested in boys, if I let her go to a school with her classmates, because I can see her going that way already!

Anyway... She came home today saying she doesn't mind applying to one of the grammars.

Last night I got some non-verbal and verbal reasoning apps for the iPad and we played them together. She enjoyed them and I think realises now that the tests aren't testing her knowledge or the teaching that she's had in primary school, but the way she thinks instead.

I think she was worried that as we are and mix with the working/ under (sorry) class, she won't know as much as the other girls.

It's amazing that although she obviously hasn't phrased it like that, she is aware of the differences between people.

Now she knows that she may be able to understand the types of questions, she seems happy to give it a go.

Anyway I think I'll take her to visit this year and speak to the schools and find out how realistic our chances are.

Oh and she got a 4c in Eng and Maths at the end of Year 4.

[soul2000]

is the lets all be educated together in blissful harmony all classes or educational abilty the mumsnet way?

[TheOriginalSteamingNit]

Er, no

[soul2000]

It does seem that way with the popularity of comprehensive schools and for some classes mixed abilty teaching on this site.

[ErrolTheDragon]

soul - 'is the lets all be educated together in blissful harmony all classes or educational abilty the mumsnet way?'

No, the MN way is for there to be a lot of different opinions which get aired on the slightest provocation!.

[ErrolTheDragon]

But maybe if there is a default MN position is that 'it depends on the individual child and what schools are actually available to you' - generalisations don't get you very far when you've got a real live child needing education,

[HeGrewWhiskersOnHisChin]

Oh dear I didn't mean to bring class into it!

But as we are of the Primark wearing, two week all inclusive holiday to Turkey variety of family... Well, we are different to the more cultured families.

I know it and she knows it. Lets be honest it's pretty obvious!

[Portofino]

I hate the tutoring thing. I passed the Kent Test without even knowing what it was. In Kent the top 20 - 25% go to Grammar. Why should tutoring be necessary unless you are struggling - and shouldn't really be Grammar material, or your primary school is especially poor and is letting down bright pupils. I realise the situation is very different in other areas of the country.

[Portofino]

LaQueen, at the risk of inviting haterz like comments, you mention several times your dds' Grammar School. But your dd's are at Primary School and have not yet passed the 11+. Maybe it would be more useful to the OP to explain why you want them to go to Grammar School?

[Clobbered]

I teach in a super-selective grammar. Believe me, there are plenty of "Primark wearing" families there, and kids of all backgrounds rubbing along just fine.

[reelingintheyears]

DS2 went to university in Southampton on Monday, he went to the local secondary school.
He had no extra tuition.

Is your DD enjoying her secondary school LaQ, the Arts and Drama dept at Ds's was fab, he loved it.

[Portofino]

My Grammar was a total mix. I had friends with single parents on FSM and friends with professional parents and big houses/swimming pools. I grew up on a council estate in a wc family so was somewhere in the middle. I remember the miners strike where one of my friends recounted tales of the Russian emergency food parcels. We never cared about stuff like that. Just Duran Duran and having a Phil Oakey fringe. I fear that it is very different these days.