Would you send your child to a grammar school ?

[HeGrewWhiskersOnHisChin]

This is going to be quite long and rambling but I wanted to find out how much of my own experiences are clouding my judgement.

Okay, where we live there are not any great schools unless you are in the correct feeder schools, which we aren't as we moved to the area after Reception.

I know people say that all the time, but it's true - I'm not a snob I promise!

There are a few grammar schools within a commutable distance, and after researching all the local schools, look like the best choice.

I say choice as they are not necessarily an option for us. DD is bright, on the top table (apparently), but as I said already we live in a really deprived area. Half the children don't even wear the uniform let alone turn up for school. If she were at a better performing school she might be more average, I don't know.

So anyway I was going to do a practice verbal and non-verbal reasoning test with her just to see if she had any natural aptitude or not, and then consider whether we should try for a grammar or not.

BUT... She doesn't want to go to a school like that, she wants to go to one with normal people.

Oh the irony! Her words are exactly I said to my very working class parents and my head teacher after turning down a place at a grammar school. My dad was angry but my mum let me make my own mind up.

Subsequently I went on to a 'normal' school and academically I achieved as well as I would have at the grammar, but but but I can't help thinking that if I'd have mixed with girls from the other school, I may have not ended up pregnant at 18 living in a council flat !

I know my DD is very easily led, even more so than me (she gets it from her dad's side) and I think when she goes to secondary school she'll be more interested in boys and makeup than getting As.

So what should I do?

I said it'd be long!

[MrsMaybeMaybe]

I think you should spend more time talking to your daughter. I find it strange that her attitudes are so different to yours. DS is at a grammar school, him and some of his classmates went to a private prep, but they are still "normal" and don't stand out in any way. They all got similar interests and his friends come from completely different backgrounds. Good luck!

[mikulkin]

Don't give up, keep talking to her and get some of your friends/relatives, anybody she respects talking to her too.

I went to a really bad school myself and it worked for me, I never was tempted by my peers and concentrated on studies. BUT I saw so many of my classmates, who were bright and just didn't get anywhere because they wanted to fit in the environment of our school. The risk is there and I'm sure you as a parent know whether this risk is high for your DD or not.

At this age they could be pretty stubborn, so she needs to see it for herself. Take her to 3-4 grammar schools, start from the least preferred one because the first reaction will be negative anyway, by the third one she would warm up.
If you pursuade her, in couple of years she would think it is cool to be studying. In my DS's school (private, not grammar, but very competitive) it is cool to get good grades.

If there is a grammar school around and your DD is smart enough to get in don't let her make this decision on her own!

[DownstairsMixUp]

My other half has just read this thread and he was put in a grammar school. He didn't want to go to it and he did not excel academically as it wasn't where he wanted to be. Granted he passed with all C's on his GCSEs but he feels if he went to the local comp where he wanted to go he feels he would of peformed better as he wanted to be with his primary friends and he is Kent and found the journey over an hour on the bus there and back in every day he hated as he was an active child and wanted to walk to his local with friends. He says he was always bright and felt he would of excelled academically in an eenvironment HE was comfortable in, not one dictated to him. Hope that helps. :)

[wordfactory]

DS attends an uber selective school and he is very normal.

Plays on his PS3, eats crisps, follows the footie ...

[christine44]

Grammar schools the best decision we ever made. Daughter so happy and thriving academically. BTW she is tall, long blond hair and very pretty as are all the girls!

[BrigitBigKnickers]

DD goes to a fab girls grammar and she is a normal teenager. One of the things that suits her is being in classes of similarly motivated girls.

Behaviour there is always good and the low level disruption encountered by her friends at the (fairly well respected) local comp is virtually non- existent.

What are your DDs current national curriculum levels? At age 9 I would assume she is in year 5? If her end of year 4 levels were level 4s then she may well be bright enough for grammar school- but as others have said- it will depend on what sort of grammar schools you are near to. Superselectives would probably require quite exceptional levels.

ps- DD also not ugly- scouted by a top London modelling agency- so there!

[RussiansOnTheSpree]

My DD1 is not ugly. She is a geek though, fair play.

[bebopanddoowop]

I personally wouldn't want to send my children to grammar schools. Both my parents went to them, but by the time I was born they had become comprehensives and there were none in the area. They applied for me to go to the private school but I hated it and didn't do well in the test. Both my brothers went to to private schools and my little sister a comprehensive (same school as me) and I think we all got a similar education, thanks to my parents making sure we were well rounded.

Going to a comprehensive school meant I had a diverse education socially and academically.

I now live in a different town with lots of grammar schools, and DH says everyone here takes 11+ and it is very segregated that the 'clever' people go to grammar schools, the rich and clever to private, and the leftovers to comprehensive. (He was a left-over)!

I morally don't believe there should be a segregation so unless my children show a particularly urgent need too, we won't send them to private or grammar. There is a lot of snobbery and keeping up with the jones' in this area and personally don't want my children to grow up as part of that - I'd rather them have a diverse education.

All of this said...my children are still unborn so I guess you never know

[tywysogesgymraeg]

If we had grammar schools near us, both my DDs would have applied to go there, no question about it.

I started secondary school in the early 70s at a grammar school, but the area changed to the comprehensive system after a couple of years (I was Form 3), and even as a 14 year old, I could see the standards drop. Not just academically, but behaviour wise too.

Grammar schools are not for the elite - they are for kids from normal families who are above average academically. If they were good swimmers, you'd have no hesitation in sending them to a swimming academy, so why not pick a school that suits their academic ability too.

[minidipper]

Take her to the school. Let her know in very clear terms that clever people aren't always ugly, and normal people aren't always gorgeous. School is a place to learn about what the world has to offer you for the rest of your life - what you might be good at and passionate about and whether you can make a good living from doing what you love. Show her round both schools and ask her which school she thinks will best foster those goals and dreams for her?

[ErrolTheDragon]

clever people aren't always ugly, and normal people aren't always gorgeous.

er, please don't phrase it like that as though clever people aren't always ugly and that they're not normal! (sure minidipper didn't mean it that way but it reads that way!)

[Bumblequeen]

Yes I would. We will be working towards dd gaining a place at a grammar school in six years time. If we could afford it she would be privately educated.

I was denied a scholarship at a private school as I did not quite make the grade. At the time it did not bother me. Now in my 30's I wonder what my life might have been had I been accepted.

I did not feel I could ever become a doctor/lawyer/director/entrepreneur. I knew nobody in such jobs and my school was not the greatest. I want dd to be in an environment where children are encouraged to work towards successful careers.

[Elibean]

OP, it really is a turbulent time for us parents, eh?

I have a Y5 9.5 year old dd myself. We don't have grammar schools in this Borough (thankfully, would add to my confusion) but we do have the option - financially - of sending dd to an independent school. If there is one she a) likes b) we like c) gets into not necessarily in that order.

There is only one state option within reach, and it would probably be absolutely fine - it was dire a few years ago, but has turned around. I have visited, dd has spent a day there as part of a Y4 initiative, and we both think it has a lot of good points.

But. I would like her to have some choice. I would like her to see the different schools available, make active choices rather than be passive. So, we have started visiting some indie schools - the more down to earth, inclusive sort (because we would not like the others) within reach.

At first, dd was saying much the same as your dd. I think it was fear speaking, as she wanted what she knew, and what she also knew most of her friends were mostly likely to be moving on to (there is only one other child, a boy, in her year who has the private option - though a lot of the girls will have church school options).

After seeing one school last weekend, she has totally changed her mind. Seeing for herself that 'normal' girls were at the other school helped hugely. We were shown around by one of them, which also helped. Demystifying the unknown.

So if you have looked at your local options, and you have a gut feeling your dd would be happiest in one of the grammar schools, then take her to visit - if she hasn't already been?

My dd finished Year 4 with level 4s, and is reasonably bright - but there is no way she would knuckle down to 11+ work without being motivated by the desire to get into a particular school/s. Which I have to say I totally understand

[rabbitstew]

Grammar schools are, unfortunately, not a protection from getting pregnant at 18. Apart from that, I can understand your concerns!

[soul2000]

Why are some posters making out that kids who go to grammar schools,are super human in inteligence.

Most of kids at grammar schools are just averagely bright, ok not the statistcal term of average but just quite bright not, super human in inteligence.

when you read what some posters are saying regarding, whether grammar schools are right for their kids you'd think the schools were full of Nasa scientists.

I might be wrong but i think my niece, grammar school educated now at RG university is just bright not a "GENIUS" and my Nephew 6th form grammar school is just average bright.

If anyone has a chance for a grammar school for their DC, take that chance if it is not the right school you can always transfer to the Comprehensive or as the doomsayers say "secondary modern" .You cant just transfer to the grammar school, should you choose the comprehensive.

Please though dont make yourself or DC believe that grammar school pupils are from Alpha centauri because they are not.

[BadgerB]

Met my history teacher from the grammar-gone-comp school I attended aeons ago. When I asked her why she had taken early retirement she said "It's like this, my dear, I trained as a teacher not a zoo keeper.."

[ErrolTheDragon]

I've not noticed anyone on this thread particularly doing that, soul - most are stressing that they're normal kids. For non-superselectives, its roughly the top 25% by IQ which as you say is bright but not exceptional G&T.

[ErrolTheDragon]

Badger - I too was at a grammar which turned comp - I think a lot of the teachers who weren't used to mixed ability classes struggled. My dad was a teacher and AFAIK they didn't get any sort of training prior to the change, just had to get on with it - or not. Teachers nowadays have much more training in classroom skills.

[Smartiepants79]

If it was an option then YES definitely I would send my children to a grammar school.
You are the adult and you are her parent. She is 10/11. You have to make what you think is the best descision for her long term future. She will make new friends.
Kids at grammar school are 'normal' !!!

[LaVolcan]

Comprehensive or as the doomsayers say "secondary modern"

Whether the 'Comprehensive' is really a 'Secondary Modern' depends on where you are.

If you live in Kent or Bucks, when more than 20% are creamed off, then they are Sec Mods, whatever they call themselves. If you live in other places, where the Grammar is a super-selective and only a handful of local children don't go to the comprehensive, then the comprehensive will have top sets full of able children and won't be a Sec Mod.

If you live in other areas where there are no grammar schools, then the comprehensives will all in theory be comprehensive - but some have decidedly more able intakes than others.

[TheOriginalSteamingNit]

I'm sure grammars vary as much as any other kind of school, but I stand by my original comment that it concerns me that OP is so fatalistic about her 9 year old's personality and, more importantly, what she'll be like in 3 years' time! I'm sure there are one or two non-orange children in the comprehensives, and a few pretty children in the grammar schools, and you both need to be a lot less binary in your thinking!

My children are, interestingly, orange, ugly and thick: put that in your pipe and smoke it

[Elibean]

I don't want my children to go to a school that is essentially for 'top set calibre pupils'.

I want them to go to a school that is for everyone, but that caters well for the 'top set calibre pupils' (as well as the others).

Idealistic maybe, but I can get as close to that as possible...or hope to...