No school place AT ALL in my county. I have to apply to neighboring county

[gaba]

We moved into Hertfordshire, and applied to the county council for places for the two DCs, only to be told, nothing is available, please try Essex?

Their last school is over 30 miles away so it isn't an option, but I have four schools within walking distance from my new home. I had no idea things were this bad, I thought I would be given a choice!

I have spent weeks reading through miles of legislation and can find nothing that defines what a reasonable distance should be, or what exact rights to an education there actually are. (It is all very vague, there is little or no detail in the laws on this that I can find).

If anyone has experience with this sort of problem, I would really appreciate any help.

[webwiz]

None of the state schools in Bishop's Stortford are selective but they are very popular with lots of people moving into the town in year 5 to get places in the schools. I would be surprised if there were places in any of the schools because there isn't much movement once pupils have got a place. The Essex situation has arisen because Bishop's Stortford is right on the Herts/Essex border. I can't think which school you've been allocated that is terrible that is 9 miles away if its Helena Romanes I thought that was quite a nice school.

[FannyMcNally]

There are 5 state schools in BS. There is one school, one of the top comprehensives in the country, whose admission rules are suspect because the division of places available between boarding and day entrants is fuzzy. Day entrants criteria is siblings then distance so shouldn't be a problem, boarding is based on whether they like your face or not. The faith school is faith then siblings then distance. The single sex schools are siblings then feeder schools. The mixed school is siblings then distance. All have 10% of places reserved for aptitude in given disciplines. Honestly op, they don't discriminate against the riff-raff! Two of my dds would not have got in otherwise!

[FannyMcNally]

If not Helena Romanes then SWHS or Newport? Neither are awful.

[FannyMcNally]

Oh I suppose it could be a Harlow school, I didn't think of that.

[teacherwith2kids]

I can see that's an awkward mix of admissions criteria to negotiate, though, especially as a late/ in year applicant, because of the addition of feeder schools to the mix for some schools and the use of distance for others. In many areas it's easier because it is e.g. all distance, or 1 faith and the others all distance. Thanks for the local insight, Fanny.

[curlew]

Why is it that the use of the words "riff-raff" turns off my sympathy switch,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[FannyMcNally]

Seriously gaba, the single sex schools operate a fair admissions system for all children who attend the BS primary schools and those in the neighbouring villages. If there is proof that Hockerill is actually admitting day pupils not in accordance with its published rules then they need reporting!

[teacherwith2kids]

So in one school, because of the boarding issue, money can sometimes buy you a place (ie if you are prepared to pay for boarding, you may get a place that was not available to someone applyign as a day pupil).

As you stated that 3 of the schools "didn't have to take the riff-raff", could you explain the 'socially selective' criteria that you see operating at the other 2? As 1 is for boys and 1 for girls, it can't be that they can't accommodate children of the gender that you have (which is a problem that can arise with single sex schools). Is it just that your children didn't go to the feeder schools so a problem arises - but surely they must have different criteria for in-year admissions, as feeder school becomes irrelevant after Year 7? What are their in-year admissions criteria?

[teacherwith2kids]

X posted with Fanny, who knows these things. As I have said, this is a frustrating - but not uncommon - scenario with in-year school moves. What other options are available to you within a 30 minutes to 1 hour travelling time that you could apply / appeal to, wither in Herts or Essex?

[teacherwith2kids]

(I mean, it is clearly frustrating for anyone who moves because they have to, that places are not immediately available in the schools that they would have liked their children to attend... but since there is no fair way to 'make places appear' at those schools, the push has to go into making the LA do their job of finding you a place somewhere, not railing against the unavailability of your preferred schools)

[teacherwith2kids]

Sorry, tiggy - admissions lingo failure. I meant 'oversubscription criteria by which a waiting list is prioritised' - ie where is the OP on the waiting list, and what criteria are used put her in that position, since 'feeder school' clearly isn't eaningful after the beginning of Year 7?

[gaba]

Hi fanny.

Are you saying your DD got into Hokerill?

And you are from the local area?

I read the Hokerill intake criteria thing and it says clearly 32% on aptitude test, so I don't know where the 10% comes from.

However those 'aptitude tests' seem to be based on the judgement of an unnamed official in the school. If you look at the figures there are very few from the local area, there are 0 SENs, and 0 getting free meals. One look outside the gate in the morning can tell you all you need to know about the intake. Maybe I am wrong about all this but I don't see how.

I am not demanding a place in Hokerill or one each of the single sex schools.

I am not even angry about my own situation so much as the situation in general. The reason I can not get a place is because there are many others ahead of me who have lived here all their lives that are waiting and hoping for a place in a mediocre comprehensive, because all the other state funded schgools in the area are filled with rich kids from London.

[gaba]

'Why is it that the use of the words "riff-raff" turns off my sympathy switch'

I don't know your mind Curlew, why don't you tell us all?

Is it because us 'riff raff - blue collar types that you don't like seeing are like cockroaches or something? Who do you think makes you all your money pal.

You can all relax I am not trying to get my scummy poor kids into your fancy school.

But If there is NO SCHOOL for my poor kids to go to then I don't have a choice but to make as much fuss as possible.

[gaba]

Whoops, I think I have been sabotaged by trolls, someone could obviously smell I had had a couple of glasses, and reeled me in like a fish.

Sorry I let this deteriorate.

Thanks to everyone with good advice.

[RussiansOnTheSpree]

I don't think there are ANY trolls on this thread. All the people posting are MNers with a longstanding history in the education sections. They are doing their best to help you. You haven't helped yourself by using emotive language and being a bit, you know, over excitable. I understand why you feel over excitable but at the end of the day, no rich kids from London are travelling to any school in BS. They just aren't.

[FannyMcNally]

No my dds went to the girls' school. Just noticed that Hockerill has feeder schools instead of distance as well. They admit 10% on aptitude which is 12 children each year. BUT this is just one area where they are very canny, 68 day pupils and 52 boarders make 120 intake, but it should be 10% of 68 applicants not 10% of 120. Boarders are admitted under a different admission system. So you are right that they do select more than they should but it's not 30%. And the ratios have changed as well. It used to be 77 day pupils and 25 boarders. You can see why they get good results while maintaining their 'comprehensive' status!

[lougle]

This is all a bit hysterical. The fact is that if you want your children to take a place at a local school, you will need to appeal. At appeal, the school will try to convince the panel that they are full in year 8 (and then year 10) and that to admit another child in the year group would cause troubles of untold proportion and that, in fact,a whole new A&E department would need to be built to deal with the resulting accidents (hyperbole). Meanwhile, you'd point out that in past years they had 2 over PAN with no difficulty and your child, being a model citizen, half the size of an average year 8 and quite mouse-like, would scurry through the halls in such a manner that they wouldn't even notice their presence (more hyperbole).

The panel will then decide whether, in fact, the school has successfully shown itself to be full and, if so, weigh the arguments to decide whether the prejudice to your child is greater than the prejudice to the schoo and, by extension, the pupils at that school.

You will not help yourself if you rant to the panel about the unfairness of your situation. You will not help yourself if you refer to riff-raff.

Don't bring up irrelevant issues. It doesn't matter if one of the schools has inflated selective capacity for your appeal -it would still be full. If you want to challenge that, do it separately.

[roisin]

I think if you move to a town which is right on a County border, it is not unreasonable to consider schools on the other side of the border.

SM recently got a good from Ofsted and had better GCSE results this year. NFGS had a new Head and is definitely back on track. Both are a very easy and regular train journey from BS.

[mummytime]

Lougle - that is a good post and explains the position quite clearly.
OP you should have a fair chance of getting into a BS school on appeal (probably not Hockerill which would be more relevant if you had internationally educated children; I have a local State boarding school nearby ish, and unless you are a military family you have to live at the school gates to get in).

Children do get into "full" schools on appeal all the time.

The fact you were prepared to have your children commute to Chelmsford does indicate that it is not just the commute that is the problem.

Do you actually know what these schools in Essex are like? Have you visited? What are they like for Top sets? (Which is where I would assume they would be placed judging by your previous comments.)

[meditrina]

Can I ask again if you have actually been offered a place at the 9miles away school? And if so, the free transport that is a requirement at that distance? The county boundary is irrelevant to admissions.

If they have offered no place at all, then you need to be pushing for activation of FAP. If they have offered a place you do not like, then you will need to use both waiting list and appeal routes.

[JenaiMorris]

Totally different part of the country, but ds goes to school over 9 miles away, in the next county. His commute time is no longer than those of neighbours' children at closer schools as he's going in the opposite direction of rush hour traffic.

I take it the situation is different where the OP lives, but given that the LA will be obliged to provide transport, the travel issue may well be a bit of a non-starter.