Any other AS DC struggling with GCSE science mark scheme because of pragmatics? Is it discriminatory?

[HisMum4now]

DS has a statement because of his AS, specific language impairment and pragmatic difficulties. He is going into Y11 and doing relatively well in his mock GCSEs. He is really good at maths and sciences. He understands the science, but struggles to score marks because of theory of mind and pragmatics.

If you ask him explicit specific questions he would explain everything giving specialist terminology. But the questions in the exam papers are wage, indirect and convoluted. The marking scheme looks completely illogical, arbitrary to DS. From his point of view he answered correctly the question asked, but within the explicit question there were two other hidden questions and he really couldn't see them - how is he supposed to guess which other questions he is supposed to answer? There are too many other questions he could comment on, but these don't logically follow from the question asked on paper. He feels it is unfair.

For example:
Question: "Why radiator is painted black?"
DS answer: "Because black surfaces are better emitters of infrared radiation then light surfaces"
Marks: 1 out of 3. He needed to add "so higher rate of energy transfer" For DS this is self evident and contained within his answer "better emitters". He would never guess to add this. So he scores about a third of the marks!

Another example:
Question: "How would gas and nuclear power stations be used to meet the demand for electricity within 24 hours?"
DS answer: "The nuclear power station is used for baseline demand. The gas station is used to generate extra power when demand increases"
Mark: 2 out of 3. He needed to add "because of short start up time". But the question was How, not Why!

Often out of many possible valid answers the examiner only gives marks for one narrow specific answer that looks arbitrary, random to DS (even to me) in relation to the question asked. For example:

Question: "Vaccination against measles virus will not protect the child against rubella virus. Why?"
DS?s answer: "Because measles and rubella are different pathogens"
Marks: zero... not correct ???
I don't even know what the "correct" answer is but nothing in the way the question is articulated suggests that other answer. I can see what DS means by arbitrary and random mark scheme.

DS's problem is not with knowledge and understanding, but with guessing what the examiner wants. Theory of mind.

DS works very hard - 5 hours of homework and revision every day. Most of this time is dedicated to getting sense of pragmatics and mark schemes. However it doesn?t pay off. It looks to me that with exam papers like these higher marks are just unattainable for ASD DS because of pragmatic bias built in the questions.

Is DS the only one having this problem?
What can be done?

[HisMum4now]

I totally agree that the style of questions would affect different Dc with different learning styles differently, yet with a very real impact. I totally take on board your concerns about dyslexic Dc, as you are the experts.

I am less clear what Bruffin means with the example of the other AS boy. He and his mum are not here to speak on his behalf. Only they really know how he is affected and what does it take them to get those A*. Science prizes supposedly are not given for pragmatics, so there is no reason why bright AS DC wouldn't get prizes. My DS is 98% in ability and does well in a grammar school. The problem I am referring to cannot be trivialized down to the level of ability.

I also find it upsetting when people talk on behalf of other DC with disabilities telling they don't have any problems and are just dense and lazy. This is a very convenient assumption to maintain flawed exam papers.

[HisMum4now]

Bruffin, we are probably talking about different exam boards. The total number of marks per AQA paper is 60...

[Whathaveiforgottentoday]

Bruffin, the pass marks have been very low for some higher papers in aqa science. C grade was 12/60 for a C and 21/60 for a B 'for the core physics paper last jan so 36/60 very plausible for an a*.
Personally think its silly, need to make the paper more straight forward and make pass marks higher.

[HisMum4now]

Thank you NoSelfControl for your insight.

DS used to score level 8a in year 9 and scored A is tests in year 10. However with the higher grade boundaries being pushed by Gove, the mock exams were hit and miss with mostly A and one A. DS revises very hard and spends so much time going over and over the past papers and mark schemes that I am worried he hit a wall. All of the marks he looses are due to pragmatics. The problem is he can't derive any systematic reusable wisdom from the mark scheme. He doesn't seem to be getting any coaching on exam technique, the grammar school he is going to probably thinks it is beneath them.

On the CA he scored 47 out of 50 with a lot of preparation at home. The exams questions are obviously unpredictable.

[HisMum4now]

Do they look how different SEN DC answer the questions before finalizing the mark scheme? They should consider and over quota of various SEN groups in their calibration.

[NoSelfControl]

To be honest I don't think the exam boards would have any personal info about the students at all - this sounds awful but when we mark they are just a number (but I promise you it is taken very seriously). It would be up to the individual centre to apply for any special considerations. From a teaching point of view I never have to supply the exam boards with any SEN info. Your DS sounds like he will get brilliant grades - A coursework mark plus hitting A and A in mocks etc plus having such a caring parent to help support with all of the exams now at the end of year 11. Gove may be a massive wanker but I do believe that the kids that deserve the high grades will get them (this may be the vino talking!). Good luck with everything, PM me if you need anything for your DS I have loads of revision stuff if he finds any particular area tricky

[bruffin]

I'm talking away and if you look at all the papers they took in 2012 one paper is 65% the other two papers are around 80%. It is impossible to get an A* overall by getting 65%.
There are so many Sen it's possible to please everyone, by favoring one Sen you may be biased against others. As I said my D's, SEN causes him to lose marks, he often misreads math's papers and makes silly mistakes.

[RussiansOnTheSpree]

Many many kids with SEN are now told my Agove and his minions that they don't have SEN - because they are too bright and do too well on the tests even with their SEN. The DfE doesn't care that they would do even better without their SEN. They also believe that kids with SEN such as dyspraxia shouldn't be getting As, that As aren't for kids like them - or at least, this was what we were told when Dd1 was re-evaluated before her GCSE exams - the Ed Psych doing the re-evaluation had recently been at a big meeting with DfE reps, where Ed psychs were trying to explain to the reps why it ws so wrong to be tightening up the rules in the way they have and why it was discriminatory to A* SEN kids - and that was what they were told. Now, maybe it was just that guy. But, in the light of the fact that the way they are handling things now is clearly discriminatory against the brightest SEN kids - I don't think it is just that one guy.

Kids in posh schools still seem to end up with the appropriate support and concessions though - as discussed in many threads on here. So it's not all kids with SEN that are being targeted. Just state school kids with SEN. Funny that.

As for science, specifically - ever since they introduced CAs science has been clearly discriminatory against kids with dyspraxia. :(

[Copthallresident]

no self definitely the vino talking. I can assure you that Dyslexic kids with reasoning scores in the top 0.02% of the population can and do miss the top grades, even with extra time. Misreading questions, silly errors, not spotting mistakes when checking, imperfect recall, slow reading and writing not fully compensated for by the maximum 25% extra time, extreme anxiety in exam conditions can all contribute to failing to do well, something that will be amplified when everything rests on one terminal exam.

[Whathaveiforgottentoday]

agree with copthall and would add that for some of the very brightest kids with dyslexia it is during their A levels that they see the greatest impact. I've taught 2 students diagnosed with dyslexia in year 12, because they had coped so well up to gsce's that the specific difficulties hadn't been picked up. I would hate to see them lose their extra time in their A level exams - for one student I clearly remember her saying the extra time gave her the confidence to relax and read the paper carefully without the panic of knowing she was running out of time.

[RussiansOnTheSpree]

noself Sadly you are completely and utterly wrong there. :(

[creamteas]

If you want a clear case of discrimination against kids with SEN, look no further than the compulsory marks for spelling, punctuation and grammar in GCSE exams such as geography.

My DD is entitled to a scribe, that means she automatically loses some of these marks. Whilst she can be awarded marks for punctuation and grammar if it is dictated, the only way to get the marks for spelling would be to literally spell out every word letter by letter. This is not actually possible in the time given for the exam.

How fair is that?

[HisMum4now]

DC with disability have the legally protected right to equality. It is not the question of "pleasing everyone", but a question of abiding by equality legislation and make sure exams are free from discrimination.

If the system put other DC at a disadvantage for the reason related to their disability surely the parents should question the system, not to kick DC who are more vulnerable to make themselves feel better.

[HisMum4now]

making sure

[moonbells]

I looked at the initial questions and could not for the life of me see why the vaccine answer was wrong.

I have three physical science degrees and 24 years of experience in the field. And yes, I'm probably slightly aspie and take things very much at face value. I did O and A levels in the 80s if that helps at all.

But imprecise questions make me see red. I'm with the OP on this one. If the examiners want someone to say why as well as how, then they should be asking how and why, not expecting the poor children to have a degree in psychology first!

And I keep hearing that kids spend a considerable time these days learning exam technique. Why? If they asked the questions correctly and succinctly, they would have more lessons on content not technique and be able to learn more!

argh (bangs head against wall)

[Anthracite]

The OP should contact the exams officer regarding access arrangements. Her DS could benefit from an oral language modifier, for example.

He should also be mindful of the number of marks available for the question. A 3-mark question is going to need more than a simple statement. He also needs to know what is expected from questions that as to state vs explain.

If her DS knows facts, can explain them, can apply knowledge to new situations, the exam system should be able to accommodate him via access arrangements. He should be allowed to reach his full potential.

[HisMum4now]

I would speak with that office again. Thanks. What else could I do?

[HisMum4now]

The access arrangements are not addressing the right problem with the right tool. For oral language modifier there is a threshold - DC should be significantly below average in comprehension of normal text. This would be in the range of somebody with very low IQ and severe learning difficulties. It is measured by reading small text extracts fit for primary school. My clever DS can understand those basic texts, so he can't qualify for the oral language modifier. Here again it is totally flawed, because the demands on pragmatics/theory of mind in science exams questions are of totally different kind and different magnitude than in those simplistic texts.
DS has speech therapist report and the school can submit plenty of examples why he needs the oral modifier. But they are not allowed to submit that without hitting the comprehension threshold that is deliberately set too low for high ability students.

This test is not at all designed to register DS problem, but it doesn't mean the problem doesn't exist or that it is not significant. DS cannot access full marks, so he is at a disadvantage.

The argument that it would give my bright DS an unfair advantage is disingenuous, because for the moment the system does give an unfair advantage to those with significant deficiency in comprehension. I don't mean DC with severe learning difficulties should not get exam arrangements. They should. I am arguing that all disabled DC should get arrangements that are fit for them and remove the discrimination. It is not a zero sum game.

Sometimes I feel the system is designed to keep the disadvantage for SEN DC to keep them 'in their place'. But then I think that the system is so flawed and dysfunctional, nobody has a clue whether it works and how.

Anyway it is not clear how oral language modifier would work - maybe the modified questions would be even woollier? It wouldn't help with the mark scheme either.

[RussiansOnTheSpree]

I think lots of us have a clue whether the system works, actually. We know it doesn't.

[Anthracite]

Oral language modifier simply needs to be a normal way of working.

In class, when doing exam practice (or any type of questioning) does his teacher rephrase questions and prompt for explain questions? This is a natural part of teaching.

The school might fob you off if they don't want to direct the resources, which would be a science teacher plus invigilator for just him.

[Anthracite]

Access arrangements are precisely for a bright student who, for whatever reasons, cannot play the game express themselves. They can't get what is in their brain onto paper.

Do not assume that access arrangements are only for weaker students. They are designed to let every student reach their potential.

Your DS knows that black surfaces are good emitters of radiation. He understands that the purpose of a radiator is to transfer energy at a fast rate, therefore a black radiator is most efficient. Access arrangements should be able to get this knowledge onto paper. No matter how good access arrangements are, a weak student will not get all the marks.

Your DS seems to have a problem with exam technique. He assumes that anything that is common sense doesn't need to be mentioned. Most students can be trained to mention it anyway. Perhaps your DS will respond to exam technique training. If not, you should absolutely use access arrangements. It simply means his teacher keeping a few records of helping him in class, as well as doing the full monty in his mocks.

[HisMum4now]

He already has a TA, so resources are not the issue. The school tried to apply for oral modifier but couldn't get around the low comprehension threshold. Are you saying they are fobbing me off with this and they simply need to make it into a normal way of working to force the exam arrangement?

Part of the problem is that the teachers don't realize how much DS struggles. The school couldn't organize the teachers' training by DS's NHS Speech Therapist because of some limitation on teachers contract (!) They can't be made to learn about my DS SN apparently. So the teachers blame it on his attitude. One science teacher wrote in his end of year report that he "demonstrated the ability to answer exam questions to good standards, but is still unwilling to do this in class" #£$%^& ! Of course he can't do it live in class due to his language problems.

So I should ask the school to train the teachers and get them to modify the language in class as a normal way of working? Fantastic idea!
I was going to speak with the school anyway, but this is very specific.

[Anthracite]

If the answers are in his head, and he can't get them out of his head and in to paper, then he should be entitled to appropriate access arrangements.

[HisMum4now]

Exam technique is something that an AS DC can only learn with regular practice. It is an unnatural way of thinking, so needs to be rehearsed to death. The school doesn't do any exam technique, they believe it is beneath them. It also needs to be modified for AS DS.

So I should ask them to develop a personalized technique and get the teacher to practice in lessons. DS has a statement, it should be part of differentiation, right?

[HisMum4now]

Does the oral language modifier asks followup questions? Do they take down oral answers?
I mean, if DS would be answering orally, would the modifier be able to ask a follow up question - for example the Why in the question about How the power stations are used?

Oral exams where the examiner can clarify and ask followup questions work very well for AS students. At least in woolly unstructured questions.