School ski trip atranged in term time "to save money"

[Snog]

Y9 have a ski trip scheduled in term time as this is much cheaper than scheduling it inthe schook holidays. ost is £1,000
I am stunned at this. Given that the school see fit to take students out of class in term time how can they have
any issue with parents taking term time holidays?

[tiredaftertwo]

Well quite gazzalw....

I don't care about skiing trips per se in term time - as long as other activities are on offer, which are valued as much (not necessarily in £££ terms). Then the school can hold its head high and say you have a range of exciting stuff to choose from, according to age, inclination, budget, what your family normally does, what your needs are, etc etc - these are enrichment activities and for one week a year are the curriculum - fantastic and I know schools that do this.

What I don't think it can do is arbitrarily say school skiing trips are authorised, family ones are not, some kids get to go on one while everyone else does maths n geography n stuff, considered so important that you cannot miss them to go to eg a family wedding....

The line is the holiday sand is not between educational/non-educational; it is between organised by school/organised by your family. And that is just not sustainable.

[gazzalw]

When DS didn't go on his Year 7 trip to Europe, the boys 'left behind' didn't have to study, instead they had a very enjoyable 'challenge week'.

I do however agree that there seems to be one rule for the schools and another for parents. You could argue that a family holiday encompassing a lot of cultural activities in a foreign country might be a lot more useful than a skiing trip....

[2rebecca]

I can see that, but I didn't go skiing until I was in my mid 20s and wasn't disadvantaged by this, I was never going to be an olympic skiier with 1 school ski trip and yes skiing is fun but so are loads of other things that are much cheaper (and safer).

[NotEnoughTime]

I have read everyone's posts and totally understand what everyone is saying.

However, I look at it a little bit differently. There is no way we could afford as a family of 4 to go ski ing but we could possibly afford for our boys to go one at a time with their school (there is a five year gap between them) if the opportunity arises if that makes sense.

[Parmarella]

Maybe off topic, but I think school ski trips are unnecessary, obscene really. Can everyone really afford them? In that case, what is this crisis people talk about, kids on subsidised school dinners all a myth? We are actually all wealthy?

Or is the skiing trip just for the lucky few? In which case I think it is shit for those parents who can't afford it. And something more low key could be organised.

What is wrong with a residential To Wales or Scotland ?

Or are our precious teens already too blase for that.

[mrsjay]

I agree with rebecca It really baffles me why schools go on ski holidays I know it is an opportunity for them blah blah but it has nothing to do with the cirriculum (sp) it is a nice holiday my own dds never went on their schools ski trip out of principal, yes their friends went yes they missed out but it really isn't the end of the world imo. Dshave been away with school but at least it was something to do with a subject yes it probably was great fun but skiing and snowboarding is just a holiday and it costs a bloody fortune,

[2rebecca]

I think school trips should be educational. I think they should be in term time as teachers go on them and it can't be much of a holiday for them, but don't think schools should be runnng ski trips, that is neither educational nor a necessary life skill.
Foreign exchange trips, classical studies/ history trips to Rome/ geography and biology field trips all fine.
Ski trips not fine, an expensive luxury that should have nothing to do with the school.

[tiredaftertwo]

TheYoniwayisup, if teachers do not want to run holidays in holiday time then they should not happen. I know it is govt policy that provokes the draconian response - schools implement govt policy.I am not blaming anyone - but I agree with admission that is fines are legally enforceable for taking children on holiday in term time, then schools cannot do it either.

I love your post about the theme park and camping - and I agree that these trips sound wonderful. I hope the solution is that they or similar are made available to all kids, with places subsidised as necessary, and happen in term time, as part of the school curriculum. They sound a long way from a 1k skiing trip offered to a minority though. I know schools that organise activity weeks, with a range of different trips (at different costs) on offer - this is presented as part of the curriculum for the year - again very different, and perfectly appropriate in term time IMO. I also think that trips deliberately and successfully targeted at kids with SN or that are vulnerable are different.

No one needs to go skiing and it is a very expensive hobby. Physical, developmental and educational challenges and experiences can be provided much more cheaply (theme parks, DofE, outdoor centre, youth hostels, camping, walking, free museums etc etc).

[SirChenjin]

Absolutely - and as a parent I wouldn't want to see trips cancelled as I believe that they contribute to the overall school experience and provide children with a more rounded education in addition to (hopefully!) happy, lifelong memories.

The flip side of that, of course, is for many children there are no happy, lifelong memories of school trips - just repeated goodbyes to their classmates who are jetting off on trips with little or no relevance to the curriculum that they can only dream of. I know some will say "that's life" - but my feeling is that there is plenty of time for the harsh realities of real life, and that children should be given as many equal opportunities as possible at school, both academic and non-academic. It's great that you try and keep costs down, sounds like you had a great day at the theme park

[TheYoniWayIsUp]

We try to do a mixture. And we also try to keep costs down. Truly we do.

The week before we broke up, I took a group of SN and vulnerable kids to a theme park. We couldn't make it free, but we did our best to keep it affordable. We also had a pot of money (that we had raised) for kids whose families really couldn't manage the cost.

Now, this trip wasn't educational in the truest sense, but it was a wonderful experience. Some of these children have lots to deal with on a daily basis, and it was fab to see them smiling and laughing and just being kids. It was also a good bonding experience for staff and pupils. Perhaps little Johnny who's been excluded several times this year will relate a bit better to a teacher he's seen eating an ice cream and screaming on a roller coaster, instead of seeing her as the enemy.

Next year, we're hoping to take the same children on a residential. Camping and doing some outdoor activites. We'll advertise it as soon as possible so that parents have several months to get the money together, and we'll fundraise once again to help out a little bit.

I love seeing the children in an unfamiliar environment, getting loads out of an experience. It's one of the things that makes my job worthwhile. I'd hate for anyone to stop me doing this!

[SirChenjin]

Do I think all term time trips should be banned? No, I don't, although I would like to see a rethink of the costs associated with them as I absolutely believe that state education should be as inclusive as possible - and I don't think school trips necessarily always are. I would also like to see them linked more closely to the curriculum.

[teacherwith2kids]

In my DS's school, trips abroad (e.g. language exchange trips, geography field trips) are planned in and around the off-timetable 'activities' week / work experience week. So some kids go abroad, others go on day trips, others do in-school activities, some of the older years do work experience. Teachers accompany all of the above so I assume those who can more easily go abroad / residential do so, others will go with the day trips or run activities in school

[TheYoniWayIsUp]

SirChenjin, I think that the fine thing is ridiculous. But it isn't linked to school trips. Do you think all term time trips should be banned from now on?

[SirChenjin]

Do you think it's appropriate for parents to be fine for taking their children out of school while schools are able to take pupils away for week long trips Yoni?

In our LA, no schools take pupils away in the holidays, and none of my teacher friends in other Authorities do - so I wonder where these 'many' schools that run school trips in the holidays are. Maybe only in some parts of the UK?

[TheYoniWayIsUp]

Tiredaftertwo, it is linked to how hard teachers work on trips, because it gives a reason not to bother! If I'm going to take on a load of extra work and then I get parental complaints into the bargain, I'll think twice next time.

And your comment about schools being 'draconian' about holidays in term time...WE DO NOT HAVE A CHOICE!!!! It is a government initiative to fine parents, I don't give a flying fuck about your 2 weeks in Tenerife! (Well, I was a little miffed about the parents who took their son away so he missed his English GCSE exam!)

[Dominodonkey]

I think many of you are under a major misapprehension. Many schools have all week long trips in holidays. Teachers volunteer (and are often fighting for places) as they get a free holiday. (They do work hard on the trip though). Often 2 day trips take place in term time but not always.

I do agree it is hypocritical if they do it in term time but it not necessarily the school which is pushing for fines but the government.

Personally I think a week (or even two) off in non exam years is completely harmless. The parents must accept that their child will miss work and tell them to catch up from friends. They should never ask for work for the child for their holiday or expect the teacher to do the slightest thing to help their child catch up.

[SirChenjin]

That's interesting that 'many' children have never been outside of the UK Viewwitharoom. At my DC's school there are a number of foreign trips throughout the school year (none in the holidays) - and guess what? It's the same children who go year after year, and sometimes multiple times in the year, in addition to their family holiday abroad. Far from being inclusive, they are, imo, divisive, esp. in a school such as ours with a very socially diverse mix of pupils, including some who live in real poverty - and who certainly aren't able to go on ski trips to America, or a visit to the Great Wall of China, or the Bay of Naples, or water sports in Spain (a selection of the most recent ones to have taken place..)

[admission]

If I got fined for taking child on holiday the same week there was a skiing trip then I would absolutely take it to court because there is no way that the school cannot accept it is anything but a holiday and they are now not allowed in term time without the risk of a fine.

[Snog]

£1,000 would be a family holiday for all of us as this is how I would prefer to spend my money. I think the trip is full which amazes me.

[viewwitharoom]

You make a lot of assumptions about other families circumstances xylem8. I have taken school ski trips (to Austria for less than a grand a head) made up of pupils who had never skied before! For many it was their first trip outside UK.
For what its worth I would be querying the value for money of a ski trip to France for the price quoted here and that is regardless of whether its in term or holiday time!

[xylem8]

Hypocrisy!
At my DCs school all trios are in holiday times with the exception of the outdoor activities one because the centre is run by the LEA and it isn't open in the holidays.
IMO opinion schools should niot (1) be running £800+ school trips and (2)not running trips on school days.
Expensive trips are terribly devisive and I would imagine nearly all the kids going on it go skiing with their parents.
Also it is a double whammy for the kids left behind. Being excluded and having their lessons disrupted because the fecking teachers have bu**ered off!!

[Snog]

I'm hoping to book holidays in term time without getting the third degree is all

[keepsmiling12345]

But snog you have to think about what you ultimately want to happen by taking the approach you are. Of course you could make a fuss, exposé the "hypocrisy", argue about your rights. But the school, who have huge pressure put on them about attendance, are not going to say "oh gosh, you're so right, please do go ahead and book a holiday in term time". They are far more likely to say "what a shame, a number of parents have raised issues about us doing this in term time, so we have no option but to no longer run such trips". Is that what you are hoping to achieve?

[tiredaftertwo]

I am saying that schools should not organise expensive residential trips for some children and not others in term term while being draconian about allowing families to make the same sorts of value judgements about the educational or developmental value of a family holiday. I just don't see how you can square that circle, and it appears incredibly unfair.

That has absolutely nothing to do with how hard teachers work before, during and after school trips - and as I said before some teachers are happy to run them in holidays and do so, and some schools organise trips in holidays, some in term time. But that is a separate issue.

[Snog]

this is a state school trip to france.
the same school get very arsey with kids and parents whose attendance is below 95% so i think its double standards. either its ok to take time out of school for a week or its not surely?
im grateful to teachers for organising school trips and this isnt my point.
my issue is that thus doesnt fit with the schools own attendance policy.
if its cheaper for them to arrange holidays in term time why cant i is my point.