DD Distraught at having to go to,a Upper School (BUCKS)

[edna1234]

DD and i just drove past her new School, that she will be going to in September and she just Broke down,in tears. she started saying whats the point of going to School, i will just end up on the Dole like most of the kids from the Upper school,She just cried for 2 hrs two nights ago, i tried to reassure her,that she could still get to University,from a Upper School but she said i was lying, i cannot afford Private Education, how can i get DD to be more positive and optimistic about her future.

[exoticfruits]

There were plenty of girls who did badly at grammar school. Plenty of girls came into grammar school from the Sec Mod in the 6th form and did well.

This is so true and yet something that is generally hidden and unfortunately not general knowledge among DCs.

[seeker]

Generally speaking, children do not do badly at grammar schools. Not in pure academic terms, anyway.

However, children do frequently join grammar schools from non selectives in the 6th form and do well.

[exoticfruits]

Generally speaking, children do not do badly at grammar schools. Not in pure academic terms, anyway.


I can't speak now because thankfully I know very few DCs in grammar schools -but certainly when I failed (back in the dark ages!) they did badly at grammar schools, the woman I met last month was not unusual-she left with 1 O'level. She still however got a good job-the power of having been at a grammar school! A friend of mine, a perfectly intelligent woman, was put into a form named 'the remove' and virtually written off. A huge proportion left at 16yrs. However jobs were easy to get and in those days you could get jobs with O'levels that would need a university degree now. It is a different world.

I don't expect they do today because they have been tutored for the exam, organised by parents who fully intend them to do well. It is however absolutely true that the failures can do just as well-if not better.

It depends on the character of your DD-I am always spurred on by people saying I can't do something. Even today it is the best thing for me-e.g. a while ago I was planning a 10 mile run with my DS ,and privately wondering if I could do it, when DH said, in a concerned way, 'I think it is a bit much for you, exotic'. That was it-I said 'no, it is fine' and I went and did it!
If your DD isn't like that I would try other methods-e.g. bribery (something I am generally against but might help in this case).
It is all to do with attitude. Look into out of school activities too that keep her friendly with those who passed.

[nailak]

when i wass at grammar school doing badly was getting a "b", one B amongst the rest As and A*s. At As level I got A, B, C and head of sixth form said she was dissapointed in me!

[Startail]

My DDs go to a comp in an area where the gramma schools cream off some of the very best (not totally a SM, because distance and numbers mean not all those who could pass the 11+ choose to try and all who pass get in).

My older DD is dyslexic, she couldn't read well enough at 10 to do a VR paper. She'll get As and Bs and maybe the odd C. She'll go to 6th form, maybe her school, maybe the local collage and will walk out with science A or Bs at A level because, despite her difficulties, she's bright hard working and determined. If she doesn't get something she'll ask her teacher, her parents, Bitesize or her revision book.

I went to an RG university from a very ordinary comp, we sent medics to Oxford, Liverpool and Cardiff over the years. Lots of my year and the year above went to very good universities.
Why because these to cohorts worked, there were bright DCs in my DSIS year, but they didn't work as hard.

OPs daughter honestly it will be ok. Work hard, seek friends who value education and remember there is a tremendous amount of free and very affordable help nowadays that their wasn't for us.

If I'd lost my old maths books before the exam I'd have been in a total panic. DD1 just bought the KS3 CGP book, read it and got put up a set.

[tapdancingmum]

My two DD's go to Upper school in Bucks, one in Y7 and one Y11. Yes, I was disappointed when DD1 didn't pass the 11+ and so was she. She went to this school (which was failing a few years ago but has been turned round by a fab head) and through cleverness and sheer hard work has been top streamed right from the start and has been fast-tracked through her GCSE's so she is only taking 9 this summer and already has 3 Maths in the bag.....

A couple of years after she started I gradually realised that we were lucky to have selection as if she had gone to a normal secondary she wouldn't be so high up the school that she is. By taking away the really clever ones and putting them into grammar schools means my moderately clever daughter has found out how it feels to be good at what she does. Our school has a good selection of cohorts going to University and this is what she is looking at after staying on to do her A Levels.

Tell your DD not to worry and to keep her head down and work as hard as she can for the first three months then she will be streamed according to ability and hopefully with other children who wish to work hard. If you want to PM me I can tell you the name of the school my two go to.

[tapdancingmum]

Sorry - just read which school it is and unfortunately it does have a bad reputation but as I said to someone on fb earlier it has to be given a chance for it to turn around. The problem is everybody who gets this school appeals and gets sent to somewhere else but until this school has a percentage of good pupils it won't pull itself up. I know this is hard as someone has to be the first to go there but until that happens it will take years to right itself. Look at Highcrest (the old Hatters Lane) - nobody wanted to go there and now it's changed its name the pupils are flourishing. I think BCC should have changed its name as well as spending 2million quid on it.

As I said before and by reading through the posts your DD is clever and if she applies herself may find some other children who want to be taught and will be streamed accordingly.

[Fairylea]

Nowadays graduates are one of the largest growing groups of the unemployed. My sil has a first from a top university and apart from a few minimum wage jobs she has been largely unemployed for the last four years despite trying extremely hard to get a job in her field.

You need to be positive. Your dd has somewhere along the line been taught to believe university and private school is the only way to achieve anything. It is not.

[exoticfruits]

Exactly Fairylea-I really don't think that people understand the graduate employment situation at the moment.

[edna1234]

Thanks everyone for your Great advice, I have got Three options. N01 is an appeal to the Highcrest Academy,N02 is a 12+ Attempt next year,NO3 is a Promotion in my work and a relocation,to Manchester Trafford that even though they have a selective system,the secondary"s are very good 60 to70% A*To C Compare that to the bucks Uppers, why cant bucks Achieve results like that.

[mumblechum1]

Edna, couldn't she go to Gillotts? We are in your area and DS fortunately got into GS, but if he'd failed, Gillotts would have been first choice (comp just over the border in Henley).

Going to GS is no guarantee of success, although DS's has 100% A-C at GCSE and vast numbers of kids going to Oxbridge and RG, anyone who doesn't make the grade is pressured to leave. Their pastoral care is non-existent, too.

I do understand about Cressex, it has a terrible reputation but may be on the up now that it looks as though it's been rebuilt.

[seeker]

I think that Manchester doesn't have an exclusively selective system- that's why the non selective schools seem to have better results.

[sashh]

why cant bucks Achieve results like that.

Because although Manchester has some grammar schools it has a lot of comprehensives too.

[exoticfruits]

If somewhere has good comprehensives then a lot of DCs don't even bother taking the exams , therefore the comprehensives are true comprehensives and therefore lots if DCs don't bother taking the exam. It is a circle. If the divide is such the top end is creamed off then all the top end try and get into the grammar school and it is a different circle.

[teacherwith2kids]

Edna, as I said above, the EFFECTIVE A-C results for your school ARE around 60%. The problem is that 30 - 35% of the children who would get those A-Cs are in another school (the grammar) - so the Upper School's results are low predominantly because of the missing children, not through a fault of its own.

[edna1234]

ive just been researching Trafford Education,and some very intresting things come up they have,7 Grammar Schools over 7000 Pupils which is over 30%,of pupils higher than Bucks,yet still have secondary schools achieving up to 71% A* to C including English and Maths,The average Gcse pass rate including Maths and English in Trafford, was 72% in 2012. I have just spoken to some colleagues in Manchester,and they say it is not life and death if you fail,the 11+ in Trafford and it does not have the same Class and social divisions,as Bucks its as if they have created a system that works.its not so GRIM UP NORTH.

[edna1234]

TIGGY TAPE. So if you had only a few Grammar Schools, taking Pupils from a large Area,say Boarding Grammar Schools,the system could work and not destroy Secondary Schools in those areas with Selective Schools.

[teacherwith2kids]

Exactly, Tiggytape. where I live there is 1 superselective grammar and 4 more within bus distance. However, certainly for the superselective, children travel for up to 30+ miles to attend, and thus the remaining schools remain almost true comprehensives. The grammar schools only take in perhaps 1 - 5% of the children in each comprehensive catchment, leaving 95-99% of the ability range still in place. As a result, the comprehensives remain very good. In fact many parents - us included - choose not to send children to the 'bus journey' grammars, preferring local comprehensives.

That is very different from the situation in Bucks, where 30% of children are taken from EVERY school, leaving only 70% or so of the ability range still in place.

[teacherwith2kids]

Edna, I have said in the past on this board that there seems to me to be an argument for a 'Special School' model of selective education, where as for SEN Special Schools, those children who are of an ability so high that they cannot easily be educated in a mainstream school are sent to a small number of regional "High Ability Special Schools" [aka grammars but catering to a very, very much smaller percentage of the population - less than 1% in all probability].

[edna1234]

TEACHER WITH 2 KIDS. I think Australia has something like what you say, Selective High schools in Sydney And Melbourne, But They would only Educate about 4 to 5% so would not destroy the normal High Schools.

[edna1234]

Australia also does something that is brilliant,that if you choose Private Education,the State will contribute what they would spend on your childs Education,to The Private School. Australia does so many things right,i know all this,because i looked at Emirgrating but it is not possible at the moment.

[edna1234]

another thing about Australia,the Hsc Sydney,Vce Melbourne is a much Higher standard,than A levels.

[notquiteruralbliss]

OP, I wouldn't worry, if she goes to the upper & really doesn't like it, there are routes into the grammars in Y8/Y9 & 6th form. It might mean some extra tuition in exam technique to be confident doing the 12+ but it is easily do-able. And students can / do do fine wherever they go to school.

We are in bucks. One of my daughters went to an upper for Y7 (missed 11+ pass by a lot not just a mark or two) then did 12+ (passed comfortably) and transferred to a local GS. Her GS has a whole new class added at 12+ so there are a lot of kids joining @ that age.

I know quite a few teenagers who transferred to from uppers GSs for 6th form (for our local GS, I think they have to get 8 GCSEs at B or above). My eldest went to a GS until after her GCSEs then chose to transfer to a low performing London comprehensive for 6th form & still ended up with As / A*s at A level.