what would be a sensible approach for school to take with dd? (Maths)

[OhYouBadBadKitten]

d is Year 8 and very talented at Maths. School is lovely and doing their best with her. At the moment they have her self teaching from the Set 1 Year 9 book whilst the rest of the class are taught the Year 8 curriculum. She finds the work pretty simple, but she is coming across things she hasnt seen before. They are also challenging her through the UKMT program.

It's not ideal, we'd quite like dd to be actually taught maths, rather than teach herself. Partly because she isnt really learning formal ways of writing proofs and what not (which will become important I guess) but also, we are a bit worried that at some point she will need to learn exam technique and also we are concerned she might develop misconceptions that nobody picks up on.

Happy for her to muddle on this year, but next year she would be starting on teaching herself GCSE if they go down the same path. Not so happy about that. If she is going to do that level work, we think she ought to be taught.

In an ideal world, I think we'd like to see her moved up a year in maths now, as her maturity is really coming on and she has lots of friends in the year group above, but we think that it would be impossible for the school to timetable. But what would be reasonable for the school to try and achieve?

Thanks :)

[OhYouBadBadKitten]

Considering my weather obsession and the fact that actually it's within sort of reasonable distance for me, I might enlist

[OhYouBadBadKitten]

Thank you phiney :)

[Phineyj]

OP, these articles may be of interest (2nd one requires a Times subscription but is general article about the new specialist maths schools)

www.exeter.ac.uk/news/university/title_255009_en.html

www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/newsreview/education/article1197374.ece

[OhYouBadBadKitten]

Will let you know what they come up with at the meeting magdelana. It's with the head of the department and deputy head, so I'm hoping for something useful. Dd has been asked to meet with the head of department this week, so I'm really impressed with how responsive they are being so far.

[Magdalena45]

I think the school is dropping the ball a little. SOME self teaching is fine, but she also needs to be shown, to enure she understands standard methods This way risks her not knowing for some time if she is on the wrong track. She should have a specialised teaching plan, the same as if she had a learning difficulty. I do think you should (politely) persue it!

[OhYouBadBadKitten]

School phoned us and asked for a meeting after a rather unproductive conversation with dds maths teacher. First week back after half term, so hopefully they have a plan!

[OhYouBadBadKitten]

Both!

[Schooldidi]

I hope that's good interesting rather than worrying interesting.

[OhYouBadBadKitten]

I hope so :) I can't say more without possibly outing us, but there were some interesting aspects.

[Schooldidi]

Sounds like a good idea. Parents evenings do quite often get a bit hectic and I have been known to be unable to answer questions I haven't anticipated. I would imagine that the teacher will be speaking to the head of department tomorrow to find out for you, so the head of maths will probably be expecting your call.

[OhYouBadBadKitten]

Discovered that parents evening is not the time to raise these questions. Ended up with a very flustered teacher and no answers. Oops! Going to phone the head of maths and tackle it that way.

[OhYouBadBadKitten]

Really interesting options thank you :)

DeWe, now that is interesting to hear - perhaps before I go in too hard I should check with her teacher that she feels that dd is fully on track with her methods.

noble - she loves those books, we've actually tried spreading her sideways from maths a bit by encouraging her down some popular physics books, which seems to make her happy. I've not heard of Dara O'Briain's tv programmes, so that will be brilliant - thanks!!!

macha, your maths story is rather sad. I think that if you dont learn how to think in maths (because its too easy and youve not had to think) that when you finally reach the challenging bit you dont have any strategies to cope with it. I'm hoping that the UKMT side is helping dd with that, she does find some of those problems challenging.

mini - thats an interesting link, thank you. At the moment shes not having a problem with teaching herself, its us who are seeing the problem!

[MiniTheMinx]

Have you looked at conquer maths. Something to do at home. It supports all ages right up to 18 yrs, covers GCSE and is not just about testing ability, the tutorials are brilliant. Tracks progress, tests for areas of weakness, gives weekly/monthly reports so you can track their progress.

www.conquermaths.com/?gclid=CKvdh5SIpLUCFWbKtAodC14AOg

[Machadaynu]

I don't know the answer but you need to do something - but you know that.

I was good at Maths at school. My junior school had 8 maths books you were supposed to work through during your time there. Due to being put ahead a year and then put back, I did 4 of them twice, and was still the only person at that stage to finish the eighth book. The school then just gave me the maths books they used before the ones I'd finished and gave me them to do. The questions were no harder, just in different books.

At secondary school it was the same - in year 7 (or year 1 as it was called then) the maths was easier than the maths I'd done at junior school, and I guess by year 9 I was back up to about the same level - I basically learned no maths for 3 years. When I came to GCSE I carried on putting in no effort anf got an A (no such thing as A* then) but I remember being told off by my teacher for only getting 86% on the mock - he said I should be getting it all right, but I still didn't put in any effort - why bother when 86% took no work and was a very comfortable top grade?

Then I did A level maths. All of a sudden it wasn't easy. Or at least it wasn't based on the same maths I'd understood since I was 9 - up to GCSE I could just intuitively do maths, and I was the same for the first half-term of A levels. but then it got to the point where I didn't just get it without thinking, and as I discovered I'd also forgotten how to learn maths, if that makes sense.

I just sort of bumbled along and could sort of so it well enough for the teacher (who to be fair was off a lot with chronic back problems) to not notice.

Anyway, in summary I wasn't stretched and coasted through from age 7 to 16, and then totally ballsed up my A level maths - I passed - just - but I should have got an A.

The school has the resources to stretch your child. I'd ask why they aren't using them, and if it is possible that perhaps they could. Maybe my example might be useful in persuading them? Surely she can go in with a higher year, or have different work set? I assume the maths teachers teach to a higher level after all!

[noblegiraffe]

Sounds a tricky situation. In my school the timetable simply wouldn't allow sitting in a Y11 class. I'm a fan of enrichment rather than acceleration and teaching yourself Y9 maths in lessons sounds rather lonely, maths should include working with others. The idea of getting a sixth former to mentor her outside of lessons sounds great.
Has she read many mathematical books? Marcus Du Sautoy has written some great books about non-curriculum maths (e.g. The Number Mysteries ) which would be accessible to a bright teenager. Dara O'Briain's School Of Hard Sums TV programme which is available on YouTube has some lovely maths problems too, which should broaden her approach to maths.

[DeWe]

I was like this, and loved teaching myself, and I think I learnt more by doing it. If ever I'd not understood the teacher would have helped, but in all honesty I don't think that ever happened.

I remember once doind a project with the rest of the set, and the teacher got a different result from me. The teacher was most amused when the class voted that I was more likely to be right than her. I was too

[OhYouBadBadKitten]

That worries me schooldidi, which is fine at the moment, but is likely to cause problems as she gets older and when she gets into exams.

I wish dds school did as your dds does!

[Schooldidi]

Dd1 is also year 8 and is similarly talented in Maths, and I am a Maths teacher at a different school.

Dd1's school are keeping her within the normal top set but are pretty good at setting decent extension work to stretch her sideways. The top sets at her school seem to be pretty good so they are all covering the year 9 curriculum and they will all do the GCSE in year 10 (and judging from past years the majority of them will get the A* and be able to do Additional Maths in year 11), so that's 60 pupils (2 top sets) who are being accelerated. A few of them are finding it easy, dd1 and 3 of her friends, but the rest are finding it pretty challenging and are having to work hard.

The top set year 8 class I teach doesn't really have anyone in it who would compare to my dd1, or your dd from the sounds of it. We are covering mostly level 7 and 8 work but won't sit the GCSE til year 11.

I don't really like the thought of children teaching themselves Maths as they do seem to devise their own method of recording their working which doesn't match the conventions.

[PandaG]

the extra maths with the VI formers is entirely voluntary, as is the hw from it, but DS loves it!

[OhYouBadBadKitten]

Thanks mums :) it does sound like they are doing a lot of the right stuff, which is good to know. Just need to check they have a plan for the lessons.( perhaps they do, in which case letting us know would be nice)

[OhYouBadBadKitten]

I'd forgotten about the cypher challenge, that could be something good to look at.

Hadn't occurred to me that one of the 6th formers could perhaps mentor dd. one of the teachers is supposed to be her mentor but he is incredibly busy so it rarely happens ( we help her with the ukmt stuff which isn't ideal) what a clever idea. I need to find a tactful was to suggest it to the school.

[mumsneedwine]

Sorry, my last post wasn't particularly helpful (was at work and posted quickly). A large school should definitely be able to cope with stretching sideways. Ours do GCSE in year 10 & a further maths qualification in year 11 (think its FCMQ. But might have wrong letters). Also do the UKMIT challenges, maths competitions and University master classes. All I would expect of a large comp and if not getting these opportunities then I would be asking loudly why not. I agree that putting a year 8 in year 11 would be difficult, but giving them the work should not be. My daughter's class were doing A level stuff the other day as teacher said they obviously enjoyed the subject & so he kept teaching it ! I think school need a plan for the next few years - it is a SEN and should be treated with the same seriousness. Good luck.

[PandaG]

DS is Y8 and pretty bright at maths (but not as bright as your DD by the sound of things). He's top of top set, and is coping easily with the work, but is not really enjoying it.

What he does love is his extra maths class - once a fortnight the 6 top in the year have a lunchtime lesson with the Further maths A-level students, where the VI formers discuss the maths challenge (and similar) questions with the Y8s, one VI former to 2 13 yos. He enjoys the challenge, and the small group stimulation.

Also, what abou getting DD involved ib the Cypher challenge? I think it only runs in the term up to Christmas, but is a fantastic code breaking mathsy project run by one of the universities. Friend who is a maths teacher does it with her school.

[webwiz]

I think if she's managing to carry on enjoying maths then its going ok

[OhYouBadBadKitten]

She's going to some at the nearby uni at the moment :) she is really enjoying them! Whole mornings just for maths!
It's reassuring to chat with you, It feels like we are stumbling in the dark a bit (but i guess that is parent hood) but it sounds like we might be muddling through ok - I hope!