Medicine - average UKCAT score

[noddy33]

Hi my daughter has just got 640 score which is just average. She has 6 A* and 4A in science subjects etc and doing Chem, Biol, Maths and Eng Lit AS. Doing work experience and vol work etc. All pretty good but I'm concerned the UKCAT score will disadvantage her in getting an interview.
I know she has to go through each university policy to see where she stands but has anyone any advice now? Although the university might state they accept a lower score, many applicants will be higher and I doubt she will make the grade. Thanks

[unitarian]

You're dead right about 'evidence of team work' Leanderbaer They are certainly looking for that.
DD cited her orchestral experience for that and her solo stuff as evidence of being able to work in isolation when necessary.

You set out your stall and make the most of the assets you have.

It is very wise to write your own PS. School 'checked' DD's and she got conflicting advice so stuck with her original draft.
I helped a bit when it came to pruning it to fit the word count and I did eliminate a grammatical howler that had crept in while it was being checked at school.....

[Leanderbaer]

Just reread my posts, let's just say my DC's are much better than their Mum when it comes to grammar and spelling. It's just not my thing.

[Yellowtip]

I'd have thought more important than ever for a student who's going to be interviewed to write his own PS.

[noddy33]

By saying her ps should read ok, I actually meant I will be happy that it is good. She has good range of voluntary work, work experience and outside interests. I appreciate the advice about teaching others, hadn't thought of that - she has done a Leaders in Training course via youthclub so could use mention that.
My biggest concern is her UKCAT score (640) which may hinder her in getting to the interview stage. She is going to email the universities and see when their entrance policies are updated and take it from there. Some seem to have changed the way they will use the UKCAT score for 2013. Just hate the thought of wasting an application.
From all comments it sounds like there is a real mix of successful applicants. I think my DD is just about average and I don't think there is much room for average applicants :-(
But hey, chin up and as Unitarian advises - keep going! - DD is determined to give it a go and who am I to stop her.
Thanks all for supportive advice. I will reread all posts and think strategically!

[Tressy]

DD put something quite unique in her PS and just as she was leaving the interview they threw in a question about why she had put it and she fired off a fabulous, draw dropping answer, which she hadn't rehearsed at all. That must have clinched it.

[unitarian]

You're going about it the right way, noddy.

Taking BMAT might circumvent the UKCAT score to some extent.

I will probably be shot down for saying this but although unis don't know where else a candidate has applied they can infer. So, if the UCAS form shows that BMAT is being taken they will know she is applying to at least one of Oxbridge/ UCL/Imperial and a non-BMAT med school might decide to have a look at her with a view to snapping her up.

I'm tempted to suggest that she starts practising for BMAT and enters for the exam. Then apply to UCL or Imperial and Leeds plus two others or she could apply to 2 or more BMAT schools if she thinks the risk is worth taking.

She has nothing to lose this year and a lot to gain.

[Yellowtip]

unitarian do the BMAT universities know the UKCAT score or not? I had an idea that they did - and that some looked askance if the UKCAT was quite low. I may well have that wrong.

Tressy being able to think fast on your feet is obviously a great attribute for a doctor. Hence my earlier comment about the dubious value of going to interviews with the answers noticeably pre-rehearsed.

[unitarian]

They must get the scores at roughly the same time as the students, probably before the students.
DD's UKCAT was above her year's average so I don't know how it played out in the darkened rooms of admissions tutors but the BMAT and UKCAT tests are so different that I assume they know that a student could do well on one and not the other.
It depends on how they use their own particular formula for picking, I suppose. If they don't require UKCAT they might ignore it altogether, or they might look at it as part of the general overview of the student. Maybe gut instinct comes into it somewhere!

I'm pretty sure that a BMAT med school will value a good BMAT score over a weak UKCAT score any day of the week.

In noddy's DD's case, I think her best chance this year is to try the BMAT exam. The best outcome is that she ends up at a BMAT uni but merely taking it might get her application that second glance at a non-BMAT med school that perhaps would get her foot in the door. So, if she gets a good BMAT result and has not been eliminated before early December when the result is out then she is still in with a chance.

What she has going for her is determination and, if she can get as far as an interview, she should be able to show that she's got what it takes.

She has a weak but not disastrous UKCAT score.
She has a full set of A's at GCSE, but not enough *s for B'ham, Bristol, L'pool.
She is taking the right A levels.
She's got a good work experience record.
She will write a good PS
She will have a good school reference
Her predicted grades will likely show that she is capable of offer grades.
She REALLY wants it.

A good BMAT score would put her in the running, I feel.
(She's on a par with my DD at this stage in the game. DD had a better UKCAT score but less work experience - and we were dead scared she was going to be predicted a B in the non-science A-level.)

I remember talking with you about interviews last year and agree that appearing pre-rehearsed is a bad idea. A subscription to New Scientist is a good investment!

[Yellowtip]

That said unitarian DS cringed over some of his not-pre-rehearsed answers as soon as he came out of interviews (especially his not-pre-rehearsed answer to the question 'What was the event in human history that you would most like to eradicate?' ....).

Still, what he said clearly wasn't the killer that he thought it would be :)

[Libra]

Has your daughter considered any of the Scotish unis? I think Aberdeen is not so focused on the UKCat.

DS took his UKCat in June last year, as did most of his friends. Like your daughter, his school finished in May so he had the time to revise. He got 710, but several of his friends got interviews with lower scores.

I agree with the comments above about the PS needing something differrent to stand out because they will all have done work experience, been a prefect, etc. He found that all his interviewers were interested in his jazz music. He was able to take about the need for team work in jazz music in a way that emphasised his ability to work as part of a team but not in the usual seting. Must have been a bit more interesting for the interviewers too to be able to chat about something a bit different ( and I speak as one who does uni interviews although not in medicine).

He is off to Dundee next month. He turned down Glasgow and Aberdeen because he was so impressed by Dundee's unusual interview technique.

[unitarian]

DD was asked what she regarded as the most significant advance in medicine. The building they were in was named after the chap who discovered it and she had failed to notice!
The panel was amused and she got an offer. They're not dragons.

Well done Libra's DS. What is Dundee's unusual interview technique?

[Tressy]

I don't think the OP's DD's UKCAT is weak tbh, it would meet the cut off for quite a few uni's who use it as part of the application process.

Also DD looked at Liverpool and unless they have changed the system they use I think OP's DD's GCSE results would meet their cut off too. But this would need checking, of course.

[noddy33]

Yes Libra, DD has considered Scotland and has emailed them all to get up to date info, though the responses are often lacking in detail.
The questions asked at interview seem somewhat random but concentrating on getting an interview first.
DDs UKCAT isn't awful, meets many of cutoff scores but I suppose it depends on how many better students apply. She will avoid the Universities that require high UKCAT scores.

[Bryonyy28]

Hi! I did my UKCAT today and got 642.5 average so I'm in the same position as your daughter... Sheffield has changed there admissions policy and don't use the UKCAT as much now they ask for 2400-2500 total so she should be fine there :) 600 is average so she did well! Best of luck to her :) xx

[unitarian]

My fault for using the word 'weak' but I have also pointed out the positives and really do think the OP's DD is in with a chance.

Good luck with your application too, Bryonyy28

[noddy33]

thanks for positives messages everyone,
Bryonyy28, I'll pass on your best wishes to my DD - she is on holiday atm and not back til 20 Aug hence early UKCAT test.
Good to have it over, I'm looking at Universities for her at the minute. Have you any thoughts yet?

[leosdad]

Don't be too put off applying to the London med schools although the rent costs can be ridiculously high.
Some of the clinical placements even in the early stages can be quite remote from the med schools - for the London ones public transport is available althought the distances are never that great (ie Barts students have to go out to Leytonstone about half a dozen stops on the central line and UCL students go to Royal Free in Hampstead)
Sheffield students may have placements in Derby and Keele students go off to Shrewsbury and in Scotland can be even further - I have heard several students learning to drive and getting cars to make this possible and this would be a greater cost than London study.
The whole application process is a complete emotional rollercoaster there seems to be no logic about the decisions who to call to interview as they all say they take many factors into account.
As regards PS there does seem to be an emphasis on saying what you gained from work experience rather than the quantity.
Finally getting into med school is the easy bit - the volume of work from then on increases exponentially

[DarrellRivers]

And lots going for 'average' candidates (using your words Noddy)
Time management, communication skills, common sense, hard working attitude, determination and commitment etc all very valuable attributes to have as doctor.
And not necessarily reflected in academic results.

[lilmssunshine84]

Hi I got into dentistry with BBB back in 2002- not sure what the criteria is now, think it has gone up. Not many applicants when i was applying, so the threshold was lower

[smileyhappymummy]

Just to say good luck and masses of respect to anyone who is either going through this themselves or supporting kids going through it. I did medicine at Oxford in 1996 (eek seems an awfully long time ago now!) and am reading this rather awed at how difficult it seems to be - have a nasty feeling tht if I applied now I wouldn't get a place anywhere!

[alreadytaken]

well meaning advice can be out of date, it would be wise to check the Student Room then check that with university websites/ admission staff. This year several medical schools are changing their selection procedures. Sheffield will no longer require an astronomical UKCAT and Birmingham will no longer require 8 A*s at GSCE. Interviews are also changing with more schools adopting multiple mini interviews. Some medical schools do still require a high UKCAT. She should probably avoid Barts, Newcastle/Durham and Cardiff, there may be others.

The UKCAT seems to be less important in selection than it was. It will not be seen by universities that are not part of the consortium unless you put it on UCAS. I don't know if that is required? I imagine the same is true of the BMAT.

[noddy33]

From bad to worse. DD got ABBB in ASs and gutted. Still talking about doing medicine although she knows repeating 2 ASs will be difficult. Have got her thinking about other careers and she has looked at them all and quite interested in audiology. Does anyone have much knowledge of career prospects etc? Entry pay scale seems v low with little chance of progressing quickly as few posts. Few universities do it - Leeds, Manchester and Southhampton seem to be the main ones and course content does sound interesting to her. All advice welcome.

[alreadytaken]

NHS careers website www.nhscareers.nhs.uk/explore-by-career/wider-healthcare-team/ NHS jobs website may give some idea of salary scales and vacancies www.jobs.nhs.uk/

Having now spoken to someone bout UCAS forms I'm told you don't have to put either BMAT or UKCAT on the form. The results are only sent to members of the consortium. Therefore BMAT universities know you have taken that, UKCAT universities see those results but not BMAT. There may be some who do both BMAT and UKCAT for different courses.

Noddy33 I have heard of people going from B at AS to A at A2, it's not impossible, especially if they are high Bs. If she does decide to go for a different career she might want to change her mind on results day if she gets 3 As after all. So as well as looking at other careers she might want to consider a gap year, or a degree in something scientific and graduate medicine if she does well enough.

There are many positives to careers other than medicine.

[xRavenx]

It's possible to go from ABB to AAA. Retaking units is hard though and she needs to be very organised (more than I was!) and prepared to put all the work in

I got aabcc at AS, and got a Medicine offer, and now have A*AAEb as my final grades. I'm off to medical school next month! So it's possible - you don't need 4 A's at AS to get a place, not at all. I applied to 3 medical schools, none of which required any specific grade for the AS grade you drop, so my c in maths didn't matter. Then I had 3 predicted A's.

If she wants to apply, you need to go through the admissions policy/inofrmation for each medical school carefully. A UKCAT of 640 is fine for lots of places. She also needs now to rule out any medical school which requires an A in the AS level she drops.

She can still get a place - what she needs to think about is whether she can achieve the 3 A's she would need to secure the place (I nearly didn't, only 5 ums marks/2 or 3 raw marks off a B in Chemistry)

[noddy33]

Thanks Alreadytaken. She has never had Bs before hence the reason she was so shocked and wants to resit. Congrats xRavenx, that was excellent. She had thought of Nottingham, Liverpool (no UKCAT), Cardiff and pos Leeds. All ok for B in 4th AS. However, Nottingham says no more than one module resit in any one subject at AS (she would prob want to do two in Chemistry) although I don't know how they would know as her school reports predicted grades rather than cashed in ASs and will give her AAA based on previous results. Can I ask where you applied to xRavenx?