Indy school references

[nokissymum]

Well i'm slightly gutted! Ds end of year report has just arrived and it doesnt speak very highly of his behaviour. The general theme is "easily distracted', a bit "chatty" doesnt focus enough but a very pleasant and well liked young man.

Ds is meant to be sitting his harrow pretest this autumn and we now feel his reference is in jeopardy as Harrow have stressed they are "looking for well behaved boys".

I'm probably clutching at straws here but can anyone in the know perhaps shed some more light on what the schools would class under "badly behaved"

[Needmoresleep]

I disagree with Happy Gardening.

Prep school heads come with their own prejudices and not all of them are right all the time. Parents are wise to listen to them but are not necessarily "stupid" if they choose not to take that advice.

For whatever reason the prep school never "got" our daughter, and recommended against an academic secondary. We decided she should have a go, even though the prep threatened a poor reference. In the end I suspect the reference was lukewarm rather than poor and she got a place in one of her preferred schools, where she is thriving.

I understand that secondary schools occasionally see some odd references, though more normally from state primaries where individual teachers may have a prejudice against the private sector. Therefore though a good report obviously helps, it is not essential. In view of that we wrote a careful covering letter which picked up on some of the negative points we thought the prep might make, and tried to emphasise the positives. Where available she also applied for a non-academic scholarships which allowed her to submit additional and glowing references.

I dont think it is stupid for parents to think carefully about the secondary environment that will most suit their child and, as long as they ensure here is a good fallback, to go for the school they think most suitable. Afterall they pay the fees. I dont think our daughter is alone in preforming very differently at secondary, though I suspect that it is more often the other way round where the primary "brainbox" runs out of steam when analytical ability starts to count for more than diligence.

[trinity0097]

There is something about academic aptidude, the position in cohort bit. We also have to fill in predicted CE grades for each subject.

[nokissymum]

Thank you all and thank you Trinity for posting that. I'm all wound up but said child is riding his skateboard outside!

Wildkat - you've summed it up nicely my worries but glad it turned out okay for ds in the end, here's hoping ours has a similar ending .

[wildkat]

Thank you for posting that trinity - a real insight, wish I had that info when DS was applying for schools last year! I'm surprised there is nothing on there about academic aptitude as well as attitudes, the softer skills.

OP - my DS' yr5 report was truly awful in the behaviour, effort, focus bits and I did think it would rule him out of the schools which asked to see the yr 5 report, and that the chances weren't high in the others as any reference would surely be in the same vein as the report.

Maybe we were lucky or maybe the independents paid little attention to the school reference (DS is at a state primary) as he got into a top public school and a waiting list offer at another great independent.

[happygardening]

I suspect just like employment refs its what you don't write rather than what you do that speaks volumes.

[trinity0097]

The boxes on the ICAS forms are headed:

1. Attitudes to learning: application, motivation, behaviour, ability to work independently/in a group, intellectual curiosity, ability to use ICT, organisational skills ?
   

1. Contribution to school life: participation in teams/matches, productions, concerts, positions of responsibility ?
   

1. Personal attributes, talents and interests: music, art, drama, sport, chess, other ?
   

1. Special support or differentiation needs: gifted/talented, special educational needs (attach educational psychologist reports and similar), English as an Additional Language.
   

1. Any other comments: family background, medical, attendance, length of time at current school, position in cohort, summary of potential.
   

Like I said before a person filling out a reference would write generally write positively rather than negatively.

[happygardening]

"How does a head suggest to a senior school that he does not think this is the right school for DS but that he needs to write said report because parents have unrealistic expectations."
If parents are stupid enough to proceed with an application to a school that their preps school head has clearly advised them not to consider then they cant moan if 1. the head writes a luke warm ref. and 2. the child fails to get in.But as this does not apply in this case I dont think the OP has anything to worry about. Good luck OP there is a lot of competion for places at Harrow.
I dont think heads do over egg the pudding because it will back fire on them when the the senior school discover that Henry isn't a genius with an OQ of 161, a concert pianist or a dead cert for the Olympic swimming team. No ref they wrote in future would be worth the paper its written on.
The three or four boys in my DS year at prep who didn't make it into Eton were probably not given absolutely glowing references by our head the one that did the ref was probably glowing even through the envelope.

[nokissymum]

Popatria - the school was agreed by both of us i.e prep and us, like i said they send boys there regularly.

Bonnie - if Harrow is not the right school for ds then of course we will take him to a school more suited. However assuming everything goes well, if the only thing that lets him down is misbehaviour in class of course we will be dissapointed, misbehaviour could let him down in a lot of indy schools.
I wouldnt want to send him to a school were being "easily distracted" not "focussing" and chatting during lessons was considered a positive traits.

Grovel - he hasnt been made an offer, he is just about to sit his pretest.

[grovel]

My DS's prep school sent quite a few "wake - up call" reports at about your DS's stage. I think it was a "don't get complacent" warning. I would not worry too much.
Prep schools hate the idea of a child getting a pre-test offer and then failing to get the required CE score. Parents will say "Eton/Harrow/Wherever wanted him and you've not prepared him properly when he is clearly able". To an extent a report like yours is an arse-covering exercise.

[propatria]

Was Harrow your suggestion or the schools?

[BonnieBumble]

Do you really want him to go to Harrow?

If they are looking for a very specific type of person and that isn't your son would you really want him somewhere where his individuality isn't appreciated?

I don't know anything about Harrow but if they reject your son on the basis of that reference I would say that he would be better off somewhere else.

[propatria]

Interesting,my understanding is that certain heads at certain schools are well known in over egging the pudding regarding candidates,the senior schools are aware of this and treat such effusions with a bucket of salt.
The op doesnt say if the prep has a tradition of sending to Harrow,for what might be called the more well known schools you really need to go to a school that sends regularly to give your offspring the best chance.
I understand that if a school sends regularly that reading between the lines is not difficult and is actually expected by both sides if not little johny or his parents...,but the importance of the interview can not be overstated and if little johny is put up for a very competitive school and doesnt get in,then its not exactly hard for the head to say- very competitive,very high standard this year etc etc now what about...... as an alternative(ie the school johny should have been going for in the first place)...
Heads will keep the senior school informed of any developments,certainly if you are on a waiting list a decent head will be reminding the senior school about your son on a regular basis.

[timmytoes]

I appreciate that prep schools try to get their pupils into good schools but one assumes that references have to be realistic, presumably senior schools easily recognise those that tend to talk up their candidates ? Do most senior schools use the ICAS form or some their own forms, I had heard that Eton required information down to what sports teams your DS played in etc as well as ongoing reports but this may be hearsay ? Obviously a good head will think the best of all his boys, how does one highlight the truly outstanding or indeed the truly troubled ? How does a head suggest to a senior school that he does not think this is the right school for DS but that he needs to write said report because parents have unrealistic expectations. How much arm twisting, private telephone calls , wink winking goes on ? Fascinated for any insights others might have, our head will be writing the first reports on our DS just 12 months from now .

[nokissymum]

Trinity - i know they dont send school reports to senior schools, but i am assuming that they will mention his weaker sides in the reference they write up for him, as "good behaviour" is an important criteria, and they expect prep heads to write the truth.

But not knowing what kind of questions they ask in the ICAS form is what's made us worried, if the questions asks "please describe kissyson's classroom behaviour" ifyswim.

[trinity0097]

I work in a Prep school. We don't send reports to senior schools, instead we fill out a seperate ICAS form (i.e. a reference) - in this we only talk about postives rather than negatives. It's in the schools best interests to get the kids into their senior schools so we do try and help, whereas the report will be more to help you and the child.

[nokissymum]

Thanks Happy. We're hoping so too.

[happygardening]

I wouldn't worry too much we used to get similar reports to this but it didn't make any difference to my DS getting offers from his two over subscribed chosen school. I dont know much about Harrow; is an interview guaranteed if your "son is a very pleasant and well liked young man" he doesn't sound like a complete yob this will count for a lot I suspect the reference is more about how clever his is