how do schools choose who will go on trips when oversubscribed?

[FrameyMcFrame]

DD has just been informed she was 'not successful' in getting a place on the ski trip...
There was no mention in the letter of how they select students and a thorough search of the school website and policies gives no info on how these decisions are made.
Does anyone know how they do it?

[NeshBugger]

Hopefully in your dd's case in an above board manner, maybe by lottery. Often there has to be an equal balance of complete beginners and the more experienced.

However, in practise, can be socially engineered. There has to be a high ratio of staff so expect those who have parents willing to attend to be going. Can then be friends of those. Can be those who might be fairly competent skiers already. My father had to have a massive clamp down on one that ran every year, which basically was one big jolly for the Head of PE, his mates and their kids and their friends.

But hope I'm not feeding any suspicions and your dd's school is totally scrupulous!

[takeonboard]

at my DS's school its always on a 1st come 1st served basis - ass in 1st to get thee permission form and cheque to the teacher.

[clam]

Ask them!

[balia]

First come, first served. Or random draw.

There are a number of websites devoted to the exploration of all manner of conspiracy theories, however, if that is what pushes your buttons.

[FrameyMcFrame]

Yes I will, I'm writing a letter as we speak.

Was just the wording that got to me...'not successful'... just made me a bit suspicious.

[FrameyMcFrame]

what websites balia?
If it's first come first served surely that should be made clear when they send the form out? wHAt if child is off sick? Or parents crap at returning letters? Not very fair on the individual child...

[dexter73]

Ours are done by a random draw. No parents go on the trips at my dd's school so that wouldn't be an issue.

[tethersend]

Surely it just means 'Not successful [in gaining a place on the trip]"?

I don't think it implies failure of any sort on your DD's part, just that she was not allocated a place.

It will be worth asking if she's on the waiting list, as people do drop out of these trips.

[pinktrees]

either 1st come 1st served or apply by x date and pick out of hat

[simbo]

Ours alternates between fist-come-first-served and names out of hat.

[Dustinthewind]

'Or parents crap at returning letters? Not very fair on the individual child'

Yes, we have that as an excuse quite often, usually for clubs. To which the answer is to be more organised if you want the child to take part, and to take the flack from the child if as a parent you don't get the form back on time.
My two clubs are usually very oversubscribed. I take all the forms that came in by the date given, and bin those that are late. Then I sort names into boys and girls flip them over and shuffle them, and pick out even numbers of each.
I also keep a couple of places in hand, because the nature of my clubs is such that they are very SN friendly and I like to make sure that if a child with additional needs wants to come, there's space.
I also operate three absences without explanation or apology, you are out and the place is filled from the waiting list.

[tethersend]

"Yes, we have that as an excuse quite often, usually for clubs. To which the answer is to be more organised if you want the child to take part, and to take the flack from the child if as a parent you don't get the form back on time."

Dustin, be careful with that response- if a child is an an abusive or neglectful home, you risk further alienating them from school/peers. Although I assume that there is flexibility in allocating places, as there should be.

[snowball3]

My son's school runs a ski trip for years 8-10. First picked are those in year 10 who haven't been before ( as they have no further chances) then those in year 9, then 8 who haven't been before. Then, if there are still vacancies, back to those in year 10 who have been once before, same through years 9, then 8.I would imagine if they still have vacancies they would go back to year 10's !

[Dustinthewind]

' if a child is an an abusive or neglectful home, you risk further alienating them from school/peers.

Counts as an additional need in my book, special place reserved.
It's usually the parents who are far to busy and important to assume that they need to follow the rules like everyone else that feel they can wander along a week late and get in because, well, just because.

[Kez100]

Ours do a lottery, split girls/boys when necessary for accommodation arrangements.

Once a child has been, they don't get to go again another year unless undersubscribed. So, by the final trip in year 9, all have been once, if they want to go.

For GCSE course trips, there is enough room for everyone although they sometimes have to go twice, so you won't necessarily go with your mates.

[ragged]

I bloody hate first come first served. DS has been trying to get into the Arts+Crafts club for almost 2 years. In theory they take a new lot each time, but I'm convinced some parents must be getting advanced notice so get names down early. Never a ninny of chance, no matter how quick I am.

[Dustinthewind]

First come first served does discriminate in primary, because some parents that collect their child will fill in the form before they leave the grounds. Less of an issue in secondary, with those it is usually the astronomical price that stops many from being able to go.

[treesprite]

Names often pulled out of a hat, although I suspect some names may mysteriously not find their way into the hat in the first place.

[clam]

My son (15) wanted desperately to go on a first-come-first-served trip, so got up early and was waiting by Student Services at 8am, ready to deliver his form. He was 8th in the queue. He told me he was dealing with it, not me because I'd be late! Fine by me!

[Dustinthewind]

'Names often pulled out of a hat, although I suspect some names may mysteriously not find their way into the hat in the first place.'

You think?

[EdithWeston]

I think that random draw of all on-time applications is the best way (possibly with discreet provision for social/medical/other exceptional need).

[balia]

What websites?...it. was. a. joke.

They can only take a certain number of kids. Some have to miss out. What system would you like to see on the school website?

1. My kid
   

2....other kids.

Sometimes I think schools shouldn't bother to take trips at all. What with the enormous amount of paperwork that has to be filled in, health and safety, staff giving up their time, and now letters if PFB doesn't get a place...

The alps aren't reserved for schools you know. You could take DD yourself.

[FrameyMcFrame]

Balia, you are a nice character aren't you?

I was asking a question, I don't know how they pick, it's interesting to hear and also see how many people know how their own individual schools choose in this situation.

DD is disappointed that she isn't going to be going, I am a little relieved that I don't have to find £800... parents don't get invited on these trips at DD's school.

[vj32]

First come first served, although you are right in that the applications from interesting characters might get lost. Just because it is easier for them to not get a place than to have a long explanation with child and parents about how their behaviour suggests they will not be a good representative for the school and can't be trusted. Trips are stressful enough to organise as it is.

[vj32]

I think the forms do say somewhere that the school reserves the right to not take pupils who don't behave though.