New test for Tiffin Girls

[legallady]

This will really put the cat amongst the pigeons!

I have a lot of sympathy for those girls planning for 2013 admission and who have only just found out that they will now have to prepare for numeracy and literacy (at Level 5 and above) as well as VR and NVR just in case they are lucky enough to be one of the 400 girls to get through the first stage testing

[kensingtonia]

Theta - I think the BBC (DFES) is based on A/AS and not GCSE (at least the one I was looking at!) As you stated, the broadsheet tables are voluntary. What I thought was interesting was that Tiffin was very slightly higher than Henrietta Barnett whose admission test is similar to the one Tiffin is changing to. Frankly there are a lot of clever girls who don't get in whichever way you look at it. 1400 applied to Tiffin Girls' this year and a similar number to HBS.

There are girls in my daughters year 11 class at Tiffin who were tutored to get in and still go to tutoring now.

When DD2 started at her inner city comp we were surprised that quite a few in her class had already been taught English and maths to level 6 at their primary schools in our inner city London borough. The top class at her school are a similar standard to Tiffin and to be honest they are worked a lot harder.

[thetasigmamum]

@Kensingtonia No, the link I gave above is for GCSEs. There is another table for A levels at www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-16730014 This shows the schools I listed as being 'above' Tiffin for A levels.

Ultimately - I don't think the intake is any different actually, between Tiffins, or many other super selectives. Since they all rank their tests, they will all be taking in the kids who either are working at level 6 because their schools have extended them that far, or who could be working at level 6 if they were at schools that pushed them on (and are smart enough and calm enough to work out stuff for themselves perhaps for the first time, in an exam scenario). Plus kids working at 5A or even 5B. And the numbers are probably about the same. But in theory, a child working at 5C or even 4A can 'pass' the test in September - the question is how many will get a higher mark.

[kensingtonia]

Thanks Theta. I have retried the link but when I click on the points per pupil score it is still stating those are the results at A/AS though it says GCSE at the top of the page.

Anyway it is "academic" so to speak; I agree that the intake at all the super selectives is roughly the same.

What really annoys me is the private school parents who assume their darling offspring are a higher form of life for getting into the selective independent secondaries - but that is for another thread....

[thetasigmamum]

Yes, that legend is a mistake. The results are from the GCSEs. As a comparison of those scores and the A level ones shows. They aren't the same.

I imagine some of the kids who get in to the indie selective schools are utterly brilliant. The Paulinas, for example (I was at Cambridge with loads of them and they genuinely were a higher form of life. But nice. As opposed to some of the girls from other indies who were much more snobby). And others aren't (many of them go to the indies because they have failed to get into the grammars). But it doesn't really matter though. They are certainly buying more privilege than our kids in the super selective grammars get, even if the raw exam results are similar (or worse, as in our area. Or better if you look at eg St Pauls). Their kids will become a higher form of life as a result of the privilege bought at 11+. Not much we can do about it, but no point in denying it.

[kensingtonia]

I know about half a dozen girls fairly well who are currently at St Paul's; I don't think any of them are more brilliant than my daughter who is at Tiffin or some of her classmates quite honestly. More confident and privileged certainly but not a higher life form.

[Yellowtip]

I recall being very flattered when I was mistaken for a Paulina by a Paulina (having actually crawled out of Croydon).

I never even took (or failed) the test :)

[Kora]

What's this about private schools producing a "higher life form"? The great thing about TGS when I was there was the absence of that inferiority complex, whether in the company of a Paulina or not (and believe me having met a few at uni, I'd say they were a mixed bunch...hmmm just like normal people... )

[thetasigmamum]

@yellowtip I also crawled out of Croydon and never took any test other than o and A levels and Cambridge entrance. They had done away with the 11+ by the time I was 10. Clearly intellectually I wasn't in any way inferior to anyone else. The same was blatantly not true socially or economically though.

[Yellowtip]

Maybe you didn't come from Croydon, Kora....

[thetasigmamum]

@yellowtip Croydon LEA funded free music lessons for kids at state schools for a lot longer than most LEAs. I feel very lucky to have grown up there, to be honest.

[halfrom]

My friends dd is 10 goes to local state primary and was level 6 numeracy and literacy at end of y5 is y6 now and has a scholarship to a good school somewhere. Couldn't say where but they call it gifted and talented. I suppose this maybe what the school are talking about.

[zoffany51]

...it's 450 through Stage 1 actually.

[breadandbutterfly]

By the way, re reference on previous page to the untutorable - but expensive - test for entrance exams produced by Durham Uni - wonder if this is the same one that HBS has just introduced in place of its separate VR and English papers?

Would be lovely if HBS went back to the chilled place it was when I was there, full of bright but NOT tutored children. Far, far too presssurised now for me to want to send my dds there - was v sad about the change in the school...

[zoffany51]

...changes to TGS admissions are interesting to say the least: my tale is that they have been implemented to assuage local parents; heard of one parent the other day starting tutoring DD at age 4; so i guess with extra hurdles to negotiate now a trend may well develop for pre-partum tutoring? insane - where will it all end???

[zoffany51]

i think TGS have played an absolute blinder :: local parents typically claim their oh-so t&g DCs only just missed out (& that's not fair) :: but with 450 through from Stage 1 that excuse is now void :: keeping NVR/VR as a pre-screen mitigates against any claims of the school dumming down :: Stage 2 sorts the wheat from the chaff using traditional 3Rs :: imo it's priceless :: wish TS would hurry up & follow suit. (though since Stage 2 is subjective i expect appeals will go through the roof.)

[zoffany51]

...lol :: still maybe not. Is generally recognized here in KoT that whereas TS offers a broader range opportunities for the boys; TGS is more an exam factory - which i guess is why the girls are being asked to jump through additional hoops to get in; as it may be perceived the only way to elevate 'standards' yet further. Bit of a shame really. Sausages in :: sausages out!!! Where is the value-add in this process, one has to ask??? How successful would either of these schools be were they to admit children of normal ability ranges, rather than prescreening 93%-ish of the applicants out. Not exactly what Thomas & John Tiffin had in mind i suspect when they founded the school... which was established for the education of local children in need.

[BeingFluffy]

You have really got the wrong impression Zoffany. I can tell you as a parent that TGS is definitely not an exam factory, though some parents may regard it as such! My younger child goes to a comp and is under a lot more pressure and has a load more homework. Elder DD at TGS has experienced fantastic music, sporting opportunities, trips etc. The girls are clever and are expected to do well but what is wrong with that. Some parents put the girls under pressure but not the school itself.

[BeingFluffy]

BTW I don't think the original foundation of a school has much bearing on the present. My old school now an outstanding Ark Academy was founded as a charity school in Westminster in 1699. Moved further west in the 1930s and went through the transition from great grammar to failing comp before it's resurrection. I am sure that its current status is not what the founders intended which was to teach basic skills to the poor around Carnaby Street. In fact the current Queen visited the school years ago and said they had linen which was sewn by the girls a couple of hundred years ago. Thankfully time has moved on and schools are funded from the public purse.

[zoffany51]

btw my 'wrong impression' is based on experiences of several girls i know who have been through TGS. In the sixth form years the school is widely seen as an exam factory - dunno what year your DD is in; but it's common knowledge here in KoT how the focus of the school shifts in the upper school years.

[zoffany51]

...many similar comments have been posted on this forum; so not my uninformed opinion - it is a fact. Good that your DD is enjoying TGS; i wish you & her all the best and every success. Kindest z

[zoffany51]

...if you read what ia actually posted: i wished you & your family well & every success, only to be met with a barrage of insults.