Do many parents of kids at private schools hold on to state school places as " insurance"

[FattyArbuckel]

We are on a reserve list for our first choice school - I am wondering if it is common for parents with kids enrolled for private secondary schools to also hold onto a state place as "insurance"?

And if so, do these parents give the places back for allocation this month normally or do they hold on to them until September?

[poppy54321]

Mumsnet is a great source of information about schools - thank you all posters on this thread. We have accepted a private school place recently and have now been offered a state school place. It is hard giving up the state school place as it feels like not having a safety net (our business is fairly new). However you have to balance that with the moral dilemma that holding on to a state school place, just in case, does feel wrong. We'll be giving our state place up. Scary stuff commitment to these fees! Another point is that once you have started at some private schools they don't want your child to have to leave and will often give bursary help if your financial situation changes, it is worth asking the school to see if this is their policy.

[Marmitelover55]

We were very worried that we wouldn't get one of our 3 state choices and would be offered our closest, but undesirable school. We got a place at a private school for our dd1 as insurance, and had to pay a resevation fee of about £350, before we heard which state school we had got. However, we were delighted to get our first choice state school (former private school now turned academy) - they operate a fair banding system, so we were really lucky. I immediately wrote to the private school to let them know (haven't heard back, so hope they have received it and we won't get charged a term's fees...). I feel a bit annoyed that we had to pay the reservation fee before hearing our state offering.

[amidaiwish]

Sometimes I think kids attend the open days and then parents decide they've made a mistake choosing the school.

[amidaiwish]

That's not true Tiffinboys. There is plenty of movement in the summer holidays even in first week of term when kids don't show up.
Our primary (ofsted outstanding had 5 kids not show up this sept!) so 5 kids got very last minute places.

[tiffinboys]

And what's a 'Blairite' version?

Is there any 'upfront costs' in local schools? Also the induction days are usually in July, so by then virtually there is hardly any movement in waiting list. It's very very ocassional that some places become available after that; main reason perhaps is relocation; not holding on the state school place for fun sake.

[gazzalw]

I would say it's symptomatic of that Thatcherite model of "every man for himself". If you have been in the situation of waiting for a place you would know how horrible it is even for the parents let alone the children dealing with the uncertainty of it all.

When DS was offered place at preferred choice grammar over the one we'd initially accepted, we emailed a letter of acceptance for the one and another to decline the place at the other school simultaneously. We know that someone somewhere would be champing at the bit and that every day of waiting for a waiting list place is torture.

And of course it's not just one child who will gain from one decline of a school place is it...it will have a ripple effect on lots of families...

GRRRRR...

Yes, you might think that if schools suspect that there is a lack of commitment shown by prospective parents that they should write a letter to check whether they still want/need the place. There must be alarm bells that would sound such as not paying the up-front costs, attending induction days etc....

[Devora]

The more I think about it they more it makes me. They must surely be aware of the anguish of not knowing if your kid has a school place. Even if they genuinely thought they might need the place at the point of accepting it, they must know that every week they withhold their refusal of it is really hurting some poor child. Lord, even two weeks notice is so much better than actually in term.

[MulberryMoon]

It could be quite stressful for children who have to move. I know my dd found starting primary school quite stressful for the first few days without having to move, but people who place block obviously only care about their own children.

[Elibean]

It happens all the time with my dds' primary school

Then the borough take AGES to move kids around, so the classes and, worse, individual kids get disrupted right into the new academic year. It does make me cross.

[georginaamum]

We were offered a place at our first choice secondary school on Tuesday evening. The admissions lady phoned us from her home as she knew we were anxious, and Essex County Council have been fantastic in communicating info to us quickly. We are in a grammar school area so guessing there has been a domino effect with the waiting lists. Still stressful though, and I had bought the uniform for the other school! But we are very lucky that it's worked out before September.

[MulberryMoon]

The person who I know who did it, did it for a primary place and her son didn't go to the open days and they didn't buy a uniform, but the school still held their place as it wasn't obligatory to go to open days. Maybe if children don't attend open days they should contact them then, or maybe their did?

[BeingFluffy]

I am surprised that people are that sneaky. We had to buy the uniform for our DDs and attend open days and meetings before summer half term, so I am surprised that people can deliberately keep up a charade until then.

[MulberryMoon]

I agree. People who do it are extremely selfish.

[gazzalw]

It's just grossly unfair on those families holding out for a place at their preferred choice school and very unfair of families holding onto the places. Just smacks of selfishness to be quite honest and there's no excuse for it.

We had this scenario when DS was due to start primary school - we had to resign ourselves to our fall back option and of course as soon as we'd bought the logo'd items (in the middle of summer hols) he was then offered a place at first choice primary school.

Much more stressful for secondary schools though. DS has so enjoyed his couple of visits to his new grammar school and already feels as if he's made some new friends. He has been psychologically preparing to go to his new school since he received his offer. But just imagine having prepared to go to second choice school (and bought the uniform and none of them are cheap) and then at the 11th or even 12th hour, discovering that your first choice school has a place for you - possibly right at the beginning of the Autumn Term????

Personally there seemed to be so much paperwork to complete that I couldn't have been bothered to be doing that (and the associated incidental payments) twice over (once for a state school and for a private one too). If people can be 'duplicitous' enough to be holding on to two places simultaneously, they can surely have the common decency to inform the state school that their DC won't be taking up the place?

[MulberryMoon]

I think the school said there were about 8 kids who didn't turn up on the first day because they were going elsewhere. The school then phoned round children on the waiting list, but some no longer wanted the place as they were settling into another school.

[MulberryMoon]

Both the secondaries I visited mentioned that they have place blockers who only let them know that the child isn't coming once the children have already started in September. I know someone who held on to her state school place and didn't bother to let them know until the school phoned when the child didn't turn up on the first day. A bit unfair as then a child who could have taken the place will have bought the uniform for another school and started to settle there.

[Devora]

The head of one of our local primaries told me that every year they have children just not turn up for the start of Reception, presumably because their parents have sent them private and not bothered to tell the council. Which is not very civic-minded of them.

[SoggySummer]

I dont get the theory of hanging onto both places just incase something happens over the summer because most private schools run a system where once you are offered a place you have X weeks to accept it. By accepting you usually have to pay a fairly hefty deposit (usually over a hundred pounds and sometimes significantly more). The acceptance of a private school place and the payment of deposit usually include a signed contract where once you have accepted the place you are liable for the full terms fees for the Sept to Xmas term.

With this in mind most private places will have been accepted sometime in the spring. So if they then decide in July to send their kids to the local school instead they still have to cough up the 1st terms fees.

Maybe these people have more money than sense and think its "only" 1 terms fees and not 7 years of fees - but even so day fees are £4k minimum a term.

Expensive late decision making.

[AngelEyes46]

There is so much movement. I heard today that 20 or so children in my LA have now got their 1st choice of school (through the waiting list - not appeal). Doesn't stop people worrying.

[greyvix]

I totally empathise with people keeping options open, particularly when the decision is not clear cut anyway. I was traumatised by the secondary school decision with my own eldest. (After that it was easy)
However, I teach at an oversubscribed state secondary. I feel for those parents who are fighting (with appeals) until the last possible moment, and sometimes into the first term, when some children don't turn up on day one because they have gone privately. Some parents never let the school know at all; they leave us to work it out!

[crazymum53]

It's possible for people's financial circumstances too improve - so they may change their mind and opt for a private school at the last minute. Usually they would want confirmation of acceptance of a place and a deposit for fees though.
There are also other possibilities for places to become available such as people moving away from the area (in some areas uncertainty about house sales could be an important reason for people holding onto places) and families winning Appeals and taking up places at other schools. When my dd started reception there were about 2 pupils who didn't turn up in September, but am not aware of this happening last September when she started Y7.

[APMF]

We got an offer from the indie we applied to so, when the state school allocation was announced about 2 weeks later we sat on the offer for about a week, just in case we changed our minds, before releasing the state school place.

However, its not unknown for parents to hold on to the state school place right up to the end, just in case their financial situation changed.

[thefish22]

Just a word of warning the other way around...we have a confirmed private place, which we had to pay a terms fees for because we are out of catchment for our local state primary. We are not sure if this is the right school for our child, but we applied as an insurance.

We were offerred a place at our second choice state primary, which we accepted, which we had to if we wanted to find out more about the school. We then went to an open evening to make up our minds if this may be a good school for our son.

I mistakenly, in good faith, told the headmistress our choice, and that we were deciding by the end of the month. She reported us to the local authority, and we were sent a stern warning by the school that we had to confirm we were declining the private place!

We decided to turn down the state place, but it forced our hand to make an important decision rather quickly. We are still hoping for a late place to come up at our first choice state primary, which I hope will come up this summer. I reckon lots of parents will change choices in the summer. I know it is hard for the parents waiting for a place to come up, because I am one of them for my first choice school!

Sounds long-winded, but sad moral is not to be too open about all this.

[BettyBedlam]

In a recession I imagine it will be worse too, as people may be waiting to hear about restructuring news.

[BettyBedlam]

I'm sure lots of people must do. We have applied to both and having been offered at the two private schools we applied to, will shortly turn one down.

Our private school deadlines for decision have been Feb, but if you pay the several hundred pound deposit, that buys you a few more weeks to make up your mind until state school allocations come out [around here, anyway].