PSHE

[Nelleh]

I am researching PSHE (Personal, Social, Health and Economic wellbeing!) and would be interested to hear parent's viewpoints on the subject. In Secondary schools, PSHE is taught as a subject in it's own right but should also be included in subjects across the board. For instance, one way would be to relate the subject ie languages, to the workplace; another would be to personalise learning to the child's ability (including challenges).

Is PSHE effective in your child's school?

Do you know how it is included in the curriculum?

Your children's viewpoints are also valuable to me.

Thanks!

[Nelleh]

Just checking on my thread - thank you all for your contributions.

It is interesting to see how the discussion has become more positive.

RNBSMUM: I am researching PSHE for a degree assignment. I am interested in PSHE as a cross curricular (personal)learning tool.

When I asked teachers if I could observe their lessons in relation to my research, whilst happy to let me observe, they raised an eyebrow as to their PSHE provisions. However, when I analysed the subject/PSHE ratio I could see that PSHE was an intrinsic part of their teaching - even if not included in the planning.

WalloInFlies has made me consider the fact that not all teachers are able/comfortable to incorporate PSHE.

[IHeartKingThistle]

Of COURSE we have to identify PSHCE opportunites in all of our Schemes of Work. We do it willingly and don't begrudge the time. But not every class is going to organically come up with an question about HIV when learning about Oliver Twist and if they don't it would feel really irrelevant to the activity. I'd hate to have to shoehorn it in when it didn't feel right. I'm more than happy to find room for it somewhere (it is absolutely vital and there are plenty of more relevant places it could go). All I was saying was Oliver Twist would be an odd place to put it!

Please don't think we don't do this stuff - I do graphs and charts and history stuff and yes, PSHCE stuff all the time in English. It was just one example.

[WallowsInFlies]

again i think this is part of the misconception. it need only be a few pertinent questions and a bit of discussion time about how what you are learning about already connects to their lives.

the same as numeracy can be getting them to work out a sum that relates to what you're doing or asking them how many books you need to get out of the cupboard for one between two. or literacy can be asking them to look up a new term in science in the dictionary and exploring it's word roots. you know? it doesn't have to be big or a whole lesson - it's just a question or two or a starter exercise that's a question on the board connecting what you are going to be learning that day to their real lives.

give me a subject and a lesson and i'll tell you where the pshe is in it. my guess is the people who think they don't do it in their subject already are.

[scaryteacher]

The thing with the RS teaching is that yes, the PSHE (Ed Balls has changed the name) bits com naturally, so when for example, we were doing abortion, then you could discuss why abortion was necessary or unnecessary. However trying to work some of the stuff we had to cover for PSHE (and it was actually Personal, Social and Heath Education at one point as well) into lessons would have been a stretch.

It's the resourcing that was the problem for me and there being not many resources for the year group, so you were scrabbling around to find which bugger hadn't put them back in the office.

In my day, it was called Liberal studies, and we didn't do it until 4th Form (Year 10 in new money).

[WallowsInFlies]

also - is that not on your scheme of work? i mean that i was trained that on schemes of work you need to identify cross curricular links and opportunities to contribute to a child pshe. don't you have to do that?

it was a column on every scheme of work i wrote (and i tended to write all of my SOW) and all short,medium and long term planning.

i used to do numeracy and allsorts, it wasn't my 'subject area' but it was my job to contribute to the young person's education across the board.

if i could do graphs and pie charts and percentages and statistics in rs i'm sure it's damned easy to plan a bit of pshe into english of all lessons - so much opportunity through the themes of the literature.

[WallowsInFlies]

but i think that is the misunderstanding iheart - that it would be a stretch or difficult, it's literally 5 mins discussion time and you've made a contribution to a child's awareness and understanding of a deadly disease that they need to protect themselves for and ideally not be prejudiced towards sufferer's of.

is that really not worth a five minute contribution of an oliver twist lesson time? which do you think is of more value long term - an extra 5 minutes on oliver twist or 5 mins on this and a chance that you might influence that child's attitudes and behaviour on something so important?

[rnbsmum]

WallowsInFlies - I agree that quality teaching of PSHE is greatly affected by the personality type of the teacher. I lead a diverse team of teachers of PSE at my school, from a very diverse range of subject areas (I am a music specialist). What they do all have in common is the ability to generate and encourage discussion and have a warm non-threatening manner with students that fosters engagement.

I also agree that and awareness of PSHE issues should be second nature across all subjects - it's all about relating and rooting knowledge and skills in the real world isn't it?

PSE is often seen as a necessary, but unwelcome add on and this is a great shame for students.

Can I ask Nelleh, what are you researching for?

[IHeartKingThistle]

You're probably right - I was more annoyed that they hadn't been taught about this than I was at them really. Bit of s stretch to give HIV education a permanent place in the Oliver Twist Scheme of Work though!

[WallowsInFlies]

but that's the point i think, exploiting opportunities. good moment to explore why they were laughing, what attitudes to this illness is and why and a couple of q's that would get them thinking empathy wise. you stick on your scheme of work for that topic under the cross curricular links column, 'pshe - explore attitudes to hiv and disease and how it can be spread and the broad variety of people who can catch it). if you have it in mind and know how you're going to tackle it then in future it will be 5-10mins covered well and prepared for.

[IHeartKingThistle]

Leafy London suburb Madonna (not there any more though).

I was reminded of the need for PSHCE today though (karma? ) when I was doing an activity where Year 8s had to 'interview' a Victorian workhouse boy. One of the questions was 'do you have any diseases like AIDS?' and they all fell about laughing (although not for the reason they should have iyswim). Cue massive rant from me and the disintegration of my lesson on 'Oliver Twist'. Think I may have got my point across though.

Sorry OP. There's no question kids need to know the stuff covered in PSHCE and I'm glad we don't have to rely totally on kids' stupid comments in other lessons to realise their lack of knowledge!

[TheFallenMadonna]

ROFL at au pairs. You teach in quite a different school to me then

Sorry if I went off the point BTW OP - I was responding to another poster, obviously.

I don't want to teach PSHE in Science. I want to teach Science in Sciene. I want to teach PSHE in PSHE.

[WallowsInFlies]

honestly nelleh i think it needs to be ringfenced and really put into the NC but who should lead that is a seriously complicated issue. because i'm talking about it being done well, not ticking a box which is how most of the pshe delivery i've seen has been performed.

for me including pshe in my schemes of work and lesson plans was very easy - it's just about recognising where something you are teaching has a significance rather than changing your teaching iyswim and exploiting that opportunity. it doesn't require extensive planning or time it's more a state of awareness and mindfulness of the fact you have 'people' in front of you who aren't only learning the subject matter you are teaching them for an exam but are also growing into human beings and seeing where something you are doing has an opportunity to make an impact on those human beings wellbeing and development at the same time as them learning something curricular.

that came naturally to me, for some it very much didn't and most teachers resent having to do pshe with their form group and i think there are a lot of reasons for that. off the top of my head:
-often badly planned stuff handed to them very late so they don't even have time to read it, process it, understand and put their stamp on it
-uncomfortable for them, this isn't the kind of thing they themselves want to talk about or really understand or have a feel for the values of
-they don't know how to switch hats, and don't want to, this isn't their skills base or the kind of stuff they came into teaching to deal with
-not understanding the values of what they're doing, and having crap provision of resources, preparation leaves them resentful and feeling like they are wasting time that could be spent doing something important and they convey that so the kids feel the same.

i was an rs teacher (a non religious one for the record from a social anthropology background) so the cross over was pretty easy for me and i'd take the learning objectives (or infer what they were meant to be from the piece of shit we'd been given by the supposed pshe coordinator an hour before the bloody lesson) and freestyle and go with it. a science teacher or modern languages teacher often couldn't do that. it had so little in common with their subject and their usual teaching style and comfort zone and was far from their usual task orientated ways of working with a group.

i'm also trained as a counsellor now, if this stuff was good it's where i'd wanna be, this missing piece of what should be there in an education (especially for those whose parents aren't able to do this stuff).

but honestly it's a skilled craft to do this kind of education. it's not that teachers are shit it's that this is actually a specialism or a certain aptitude and awareness and personality type area (not sure i'm making sense). teachers need some help knowing how to do this and what it's about etc. there should be someone heading it up in a school who really not only knows what they're doing but is able to share that with teachers and get them on board and confident about what they're doing and why. it needs to be done properly i guess is what i'm saying, it's not hard to do, would love to, but currently it's tokenism that just isn't working. you need someone who is literally dedicated to pshe planning, training, delivery etc rather than someone who's a subject teacher in another area getting 2k extra and little extra non teaching time to try and take it on. it's too big for that if you want to do it well.

sorry for long ramble if it's irrelevent apologies. not sure what it is you're doing - research? feel free to pm me if i can be of any use in any way, it is an area of interest.

[Nelleh]

Hi there,

To clarify PSHE:

"On 5 November 2009 Secretary of State Ed Balls confirmed that Personal, Social, Health and Economic (PSHE) education will become a statutory part of the National Curriculum from 2011." (Teachernet)

Thank you for valued responses.

Jux: I agree!

Senua: Isn't PSHE about 'deeper knowledge' rather than learning for test?

Scaryteacher: One aim of PSHE is 'localised' learning. It has to be relevant to the students.

TheFallenMadonna: Thank you! Of course PSHE lessons are planned and each school should have a policy. What I am really trying to fiind out is how PSHE is included in subject lessons ie. Maths.

WallowsInFlies: I so agree! Isn't it more effective to discuss/tackle these issues across the curriculum?

Dustdustdust: I am going to share your comments with the PSHE co-ordinator at my school! This is the POINT of PSHE! Thank you!

[Jux]

DD has only jsut started secondary. PSHE is two lessons a week, but they are incorporated everything into everything, though PSHE is most closely aligned with PE. Not quite sure how it works yet, but I know DD enjoys the lessons as she's actually said so (well, she said it was interesting and fun).

It was also taught as a separate subject at her primary.

I am happy for the school to do this as it reinforces things we talk about at home. The school is usually way behind us though, which means dd has had some time to absorb family conversations and have questions, rather than being taken by surprise and having questions later. I know some people may hesitate to talk to their children about sensitive subjects, or not have time, or are just too embarrassed so the fact that schools are prepared to spend some time talking to children about these things is good, imo.

[senua]

I have just picked up a comment on another thread where they are discussing whether double science is adequate or whether children should do triple science:

"If however you want them to actually do [A Level} science then triple is the way to go. It is the extra modules that come with doing triple that actually contain some science (certainly for physics anyway). Sadly much of the content in core and to a lesser extent double award science, is to a large extent very woolly. E.g there is more focus now on dicussing the social implications of taking drugs than the effects on the body."

I can see the logic for trying to include PHSE in amongst the academic subjects but it doesn't feel like it adds to the subject, instead it dilutes it. I know proper scientists get really fed up with all the wishwashy "how do you feel about global warming" stuff.

[senua]

I think the main problem is that they tackle things before the kids are ready for them, but then they have to.
So you can talk about contraceptives to youngsters and they will think it irrelevant because they are still at the stage where the sexes despise each other. But, if you leave it until it is relevant, then it may be too late and they are already at it and pregnant!

Unfortunately, PHSE has to be like an annoying dripping tap and you have to hope that, when they hear it for the umpteenth time, it might go in.

[scaryteacher]

'In an ideal world PSHE should be incorporated across the curriculum adding relevance to the subjects.'

'I know subject teachers rarely include it in planning - they should'

I saw my GCSE students for an hour a week and had to fit 90 minutes of teaching into that hour, so frankly, my focus was on getting through the spec not buggering about with PSHE (the E is for emotional, or was when I was teaching it).

I had to teach PSHE to my tutor group; we did bullying, healthy eating etc, but I agree with Meow75s post - it's to do the things that parents can't be arsed to do. It certainly wasn't the top priority on my agenda by any means. It would have been far more useful for the PSCE coordinator to have got speakers in. The best thing we had was a theatre company who came in and did a play about road safety, that was fab.

With Year 11 we had them off timetable and did a finance day with videos that were like watching paint dry. I switched it off and we did budgeting; what a bank statement looks like,; gross and net income; tax, NI; renting; paying bills; APRs; compound interest on credit cards etc, which they all said was far more useful than anything else.

[IHeartKingThistle]

Bloody hell, I wish I was like that Madonna -clearly I am a bit crap. Part of it was definitely the schemes of work but I hold my hands up, I didn't want to be doing it. Strange really as we discuss most if not all of those issues somewhere along the line in English and I love it. I like the idea of the subject, I honestly just hated teaching it.

I think the day I lost it with PSHCE was the day I was in a Year 7 lesson discussing division of housework and watched open-mouthed as it turned into a joyful critique of their various au pairs (lazy, thieving, can't cook etc.). I asked them to go home, do a job around the house without being asked, and write down the reaction they received. The reaction the task received was disbelief.

[IloveJudgeJudy]

In my DCs' school it is 25 mins/4 days a week. I have to say I think it's a waste of time. I have heard (at a Y7 induction session) that some forms take in cake! The school has now changed to vertical tutoring. My older DS says that, even if they do ever do anything in PHSE that his form hasn't covered before, he would not want to discuss it in front of Y7 children, especially drugs/sex.

The school does not seem to have any specific curriculum for these lessons, so to me it is just a waste of nearly 2 hours of teaching time per week. I cannot see the point of it, and while we're discussing this, can anyone tell me exactly what "competence curriculum" is supposed to be, please, because that seems to be another case of wasting teaching time in Y7/8? Thanks.

[TheFallenMadonna]

I teach it. Most of us do in my school. I teach year 9. We cover personal safety, relationship and sex ed including contraception and homosexuality, personal finance, careers and human rights. There are coherent schemes of learning - we don't make stuff up as we go along. We have special ground rules for class discussions and I find the lessons very illuminating with regards to the attitudes and opinions of 14 year olds. I enjoy the lessons very much. My job is teacher. Usually, but not exclusively, science teacher.

[IHeartKingThistle]

I teach secondary English and occasionally in the past have been given the odd PSHCE lesson to teach.

And that's the problem really, I don't think it's often taught by specialists. The curriculum is odd, fragmented and taught by people who don't really want to be doing it.

I do think it could have value as a subject, I do wish I had been able to throw myself into teaching those lessons, but I did the best I could under the circumstances. I also found students behaviour MUCH worse in those lessons than in my English lessons; students just saw it as pointless. I know, I know, it was my job to make them see otherwise. But my actual job was ENGLISH TEACHER!

[sonotboden]

my dd who is 15 told me that phse was

"Clymidia and God in that order"

they are forced to do a GCSE in it- ethics and philosophy- she got 28% in it on purpose.

it really does bring out the worst in her. One teacher told her to draw a picture of God. She has no religion so refused to participate. Her view is that she has spent since the age of 4 celebrating every religious festival in the known world- she understands religious sensitivity but feels that at 15 her views- ie she does not beleive in any god or religion should be respected and she should be left to get on with her life.

oh and very helpfully a video of an abortion was shown to them so she has told me if she gets pregnant, she would definitely keep it. she has learnt how to put a condom on a cucumber as well so all very useful

on the plus side she has recognised that quite a lot of people do not have the live and let live attitude we have and there are lots of right wing people in the world and indeed her school.

[DustDustDust]

I agree completely with cory & her daughter. The seemingly random structure of lessons wasn't appreciated and we never went into the class knowing what we'd be doing. They'd say "Oh, PC Jones is here today to talk about alcohol. Now be quiet!" Then next lesson we'd go in and have to write out everything we ate in the past week to see how healthy it was. It was all very scattered. =S