Does your child want to do a "XXXX Studies" A Level?

[Ponders]

Make them read this before they choose!

A grades in drama and theatre studies, religious studies, and English language and literature, but no university offer 2 years in a row...

Drama/theatre studies and English lang/lit is obviously not a good combination; much too similar. Religious studies may well be (& should be) quite rigorous intellectually - I have no idea what the syllabus is like - but I can imagine admissions tutors glazing over at 2 lots of "studies" without looking any further.

Frustrating for the lad but who let him choose those subjects? His school should have advised him!

[Ponders]

My daughter did Lang/Lit a few years ago, gramercy, & went into Linguistics on the strength of what the Lang bit covered then.

This is the summary of Eng Lang from her school's prospectus (& there is no specific GCSE requirement for it - Lit requires min C at GCSE):

Students should consider this subject if they have a real interest in language. This means enjoying studying how English is used in the world when people speak to one another in various situations and how written language is used to communicate meaning.
Students study anything from cornflake packets to legal documents but must like the process of analysing in close detail. Topics such as language and gender, language and power and language and technology are studied. There is the opportunity to produce writing for different audiences and purposes and to undertake a research project on an area of choice.
The skills students develop can be applied to many professions.
Students need a positive attitude, must enjoy discussion and be able to work independently. A systematic and precise approach is needed in students? thinking.

This is Lang/Lit:

This English course caters for all tastes. It enables students to come to an understanding of why writers of both literary and non-literary texts make the stylistic decision they do and how literature has changed over time. The student will also have the opportunity to improve their creative writing skills.
To get the most out of this course students need to enjoy reading and writing and talking about both.

("why writers of both literary and non-literary texts make the stylistic decision they do"
"The student will also have the opportunity to improve their creative writing skills."
They need a good proof-reader! )

[gerontius]

Um, what's wrong with the second one you've highlighted?

[lazymumofteenagesons]

There is nothing 'wrong' with either of those A levels. But any student wanting to go on and study English Literature at a 'top' university, as the boy in the article wanted, will be at a disadvantage with either of those A levels. It all comes down to getting guidance on the most appropriate subjects for whatever future study path the student wants.

How many out there realise, for example, that most psychology degrees want at least maths or another science and aren't the slightest bit bothered about a psychology A level?

[Ponders]

For "their" it should start with "the students".

If they do mean "the student" singular then it should be "his or her creative writing skills"

Pedantic? Moi?

But as an English Language A Level is being described it would be nice if they used proper grammar, innit.

[Ponders]

"How many out there realise, for example, that most psychology degrees want at least maths or another science and aren't the slightest bit bothered about a psychology A level?"

Well, quite. And you don't need Law A Level for a Law degree, Economics for an Economics degree, or Politics for a Politics degree either.

Often, though, students have no idea what degree they will want to do, so then they need to do subjects they will enjoy but which will not count against them later, & I still think the student in the OP should have been advised against combining drama/theatre & lang/lit.

[EvilTwins]

Why should the student have been advised against doing a combination of English and Theatre Studies? Seriously - I don't get it. Almost all of the students I teach/have taught A Level Theatre Studies to also do English. It's a classic combination - the two subjects complement each other.

Would posters be saying the same if the boy had done Physics, Chemistry, Math and Further Maths?

[Ponders]

doing them in combo hasn't got him a place, has it - even with 3 As?

[EvilTwins]

No, but there may well have been much more to it than that - personal statement rubbish, reference from school rubbish and so on. I think a blanket "well what do you expect with that combination of A Levels" is a bit simplistic.

[lazymumofteenagesons]

Eviltwins - I think ponders meant he should have been advised against taking the combined drama/theatre studies and combined eng lang/lit a levels. It looks like if he had done English (lit), theatre studies and RS then he would have stood a better chance.

However none of us have the whole story. Maybe his PS was rubbish, maybe someone else with the same A levels had a string of A*s at GCSE. It could have been down to a number of other factors.

[lazymumofteenagesons]

OOPS cross post!

[EvilTwins]

Maybe he was a lazy so and so who didn't do anything other than turn up to the minimum amount of lessons and then get As without putting much effort in. Maybe he contributed nothing to school life, had done no work experience and had no extra-curricular activities to mention. I would imagine that would contribute a whole lot more than his combination of A Levels.

And for what it's worth, there's not much difference in syllabus requirements between Theatre Studies and Drama and Theatre Studies - it's different names for different exam boards, IME.

[circular]

There seems to be a lot of talk in this thread about choosing subjects too closely related.
I would be interested to know how it pans out at the other end of the scale when the student has an unlikely mixture. Although my eldest has only just completed year 8, I could quite easily see here choosing Music, Chemistry and two of Geography, Maths or French. Shame they don't do the IB at her school. And an even bigger shame General Studies is a compulsory extra.

[Musicteachingmum]

General Studies is a complete waste of space - most universities ignore it, so what's the point?

Circular - that combination looks reasonable, depending on what she wants to do - all in the top listings, I think!

Oh, and on Personal Statements, some of the worst come from private school students and begin with them quoting somebody or other - highly pretentious, far too common, and send the admissions panel to involuntarily gag - REALLY BAD IDEA!!

A levels is but a minor concern for a good student, to stand out a student needs to have done far more than just their A levels! eg. debating, music, prefect, etc., etc., and the all important relevant work experience! If you have a child in the middle of, or just beginning A levels, get them to seek out some work experience (in all probability unpaid) for their holidays!

[lazymumofteenagesons]

"A levels is but a minor concern for a good student, to stand out a student needs to have done far more than just their A levels! eg. debating, music, prefect, etc., etc., and the all important relevant work experience! If you have a child in the middle of, or just beginning A levels, get them to seek out some work experience (in all probability unpaid) for their holidays!"

I'm afraid (from personal experience)I have to disagree with the above. My son has just done his A levels and I can say categorically that none of the above made any difference to his university application. He did as little as possible of any extra curricula activities and did not hold any positions of authority at school. Did no drama as little sport as poss and left school the minute 4 o'clock struck. I am not proud of any of that and wished he had involved himself more. He did one weeks work experience which was totally irrelevant to his chosen courses.

With good exam results, a well written PS and I can only assume a decent reference from school, he got 5 offers all at top universities. I had spent the last 3 years telling him if he didn't have anything extra to write about on the PS he would have a problem, but obviously it didn't matter.

[qumquat]

I agree that a lot of students are ill advised but think that in this student's case the poor advice was in applying for only 'top' universities rather than a range, I agree with eviltwins that there is nothing intrinsically wrong with his subjects, in fact I got in to Cambridge with a very similar set, and am now a drama teacher!

[Ponders]

I would bet he wasn't advised to apply only to top universities - more likely he was advised not to, but ignored the advice (& maybe ignored advice on his PS too)

Which subjects did you do at A level, qumquat?

[PosyPetrovaPauline]

wow lazymum!

ds got 5 offers from great places but did the works

personally i think gcse grades are taken into consideration

state schools not great help with personal statement ime

[EvilTwins]

PPP - that's a massive generalisation and wildly insulting for those of us who spend hours helping our tutees with UCAS applications.

[webwiz]

DD1's experience was the same as Lazymum's DS - minimum extracurricular stuff but good gcse's, a good personal statement that really showed she wanted to study biology and a good reference from school and she had no problems getting offers.

DD2 does lots of stuff because she enjoys being busy but there won't be room to fit much of it into her personal statement without sacrificing the academic side of it and certainly for her chosen subject, maths, this will be most important.

When DD1 was applying an admissions tutor came from one of the universities to talk about personal statements and what they were looking for. He showed examples of what they considered were excellent personal statements and none of them have more than a few lines about being a prefect and D of E it was nearly all "why I am really interested in the subject I want to study"

[PosyPetrovaPauline]

evil - that is not a personal insult so please don't take it as such

my experience was that ds private school friends did very little of their own ps whereas at ds school - they would be 'looked over' and commented on by a teacher if you took it. ds did take it to a couple but the comments advising him contradicted one another

generally the private school pupils seemed to have much more support

you don't think this is so?

[EvilTwins]

I don't think you can say that private schools are "generally" more supportive based purely on the experience of your own DS. I've had VI Form tutees for a while, and always spend time working on their statements with thm. And anyway they should do it themselves - it's a personal statement. Your comment

"my experience was that ds private school friends did very little of their own ps"

is bizarre. And this is a good thing?

[PosyPetrovaPauline]

definitely NOT a good thing but this is what the state school kids are up against and that IS an issue

I am not just quoting ds - the upper 6th year and all that UCAS stuff is pretty heavy going and ALL parents talk about it..

the general consensus seemed to be that the private schools 'came into their own' and took the burden of the PS from pupils

private schools are businesses and it is in their financial interest to get students into great universities

maybe state schools just do not have the time etc or funds to spend time on them i don't know

[PosyPetrovaPauline]

Evil - I was seething at some of the things parents said at the time

[Ponders]

my kids have all been through a state school (selective, admittedly) & had masses of help with their PSs - DS1 had a gap year before even thinking about applying (no straight As for him ) but even though he'd left the year before, his former personal tutor gave him lots of time & help with his PS & he got into a Russell Group university.

DS2 is currently at a FE college & is also getting loads of support towards applying in the next academic year.

State schools may not be businesses, but it's also in their interest to get good university admissions.

[SuzieHomemaker]

I think a big difficulty for students is that it seems that the rules keep changing. One year admissions tutors seem to be looking for lots of breadth - a broad range of subjects at A level, lots of extra curricular activities. The next year the world turns and admissions tutors seem to be looking for greater concentration on the subject.

Perhaps students need to stop trying to second guess the process and study the subjects which interest them then see where that leads them. Students change so much between 14 and their early twenties that they might as well enjoy what they are doing at the time.

I work in professional skills training and know that it really doesnt matter that much in the end (though I wont be mentioning that to DCs) unless the student is planning an academic career. Any gaps in knowledge can be made up for later.