Does your child want to do a "XXXX Studies" A Level?

[Ponders]

Make them read this before they choose!

A grades in drama and theatre studies, religious studies, and English language and literature, but no university offer 2 years in a row...

Drama/theatre studies and English lang/lit is obviously not a good combination; much too similar. Religious studies may well be (& should be) quite rigorous intellectually - I have no idea what the syllabus is like - but I can imagine admissions tutors glazing over at 2 lots of "studies" without looking any further.

Frustrating for the lad but who let him choose those subjects? His school should have advised him!

[Fennel]

Psychology can be a science subject and still a BA, it depends on the university.

[GetOrfMoiLand]

Thansk everryone re geog.

[EduStudent]

The same happens with Psychology, at degree level many universities offer it as a BSc, rather than a BA, giving it science status.

I know many universities (other than Cambridge) class Psychology as a science A Level, alongisde Biology/Chemistry/Physics as it has a lot of Biology as well as plenty of research and statistical work.

[mattellie]

Back in the days when I was at university (when dinosaurs roamed the earth according to DCs), a Geography degree could be either a BA or a BSc, so clearly the thinking was that it bridged the gap between the Arts and the Sciences.

I wouldn?t have thought your DD needs to worry about that combi, GOML.

[Ponders]

Is geog humanity or science? Either way I should think it would depend on what degree she wanted to go for, Getorf. They're both in the A2 list on the Cambridge site anyway!

DS has done History, Politics, Economics & French at AS. He intends to drop French at A2 - I've been trying to talk him into dropping Economics instead (as he hasn't got Maths past GCSE he'd struggle to go on with it at degree level anyway) but his French teacher is not inspiring & he's enjoying Economics more.

Not sure yet what degree he'll go for - some combination of Politics and/or History and/or
Philosophy - he still has to look into all the possible combinations at the unis he's keen on & I can't get him off the XBox . He'll be applying in the autumn, it'll be interesting to see how he goes on...

[webwiz]

GetOrfMoiland Geography sits in the middle a bit - for DD1 it was counted as a second 'science' when applying for a biology degree. The coursework she did was certainly quite sciency with lots of statistical analysis of the results and it feeds into the ecology/environmental science bit of her degree.

[GetOrfMoiLand]

DD wants to study History and Geography (along with Chemistry) at A Level.

Do you think 2 humanities would go against her? They are her favourite subjects (she is lucky that she was able to choose both in her GCSe options)

[FortunateHamster]

Gosh, I never realised Lang & Lit wasn't considered a good subject. I studied it at a sixth form college that generally gets great results and sends a lot of people to Oxbridge but that A Level was really popular there (in 1998 anyway!). It never occurred to me that it might be easier than Lit - I was always interested in both subjects and thought the combined A Level would be the best of both worlds.

Fortunately the Russell Group uni I went to (Kings, London) didn't seem to mind - but then again I did a Lang & Lit degree, too. At uni, I personally found the Lang elements a lot harder than my Lit units.

Perhaps in today's climate I'd have a much harder time. I did Psychology as well - so in fact my only 'proper' A Level was History! In the end I was only rejected by one uni - maybe my course choices was the reason.

I must say though that no one ever counselled me on what would be good choices - I simply went for courses I fancied. I'd hope that nowadays students would get more advice.

[Litchick]

SG - I agree. I recall my own applications to uni and it was all so stright forward then. So much more competitive now.

But then so is the labour market these days.

No wonder we all worry about our children so much.

[singersgirl]

Sorry if I sounded chippy - you've obviously got experience in the field, unlike me. My children are not at university stage yet, though I've been watching my nieces go through it, and it all sounds much more daunting than when I did it in the 80s.

[Musicteachingmum]

singersgirl - I wasn't speaking for all 'expensive' private schools, but there were certain schools, which I'm not going to mention, because it's unprofessional and inappropriate, where this was the case.

[SuzieHomemaker]

On work experience prior to medicine - when I took DD2 to see the GP last week he had a lad with hime who the GP explained was there for a bit of experience prior to going to medical school. So it is possible!

[lazymumofteenagesons]

Musicteachingmum - you do have a point. Even though he did not push himself regarding the extra curriculum stuff. He read avidly around the subjects he was applying for and wrote a few extended essays outside of the A level syllabus. His PS was based on why he wanted to study the subjects and what he had read and researched into them himself and any relevance his A levels had on this. The only talk we went to by an admissions tutor was very similar to that which webwiz experienced in that he said he was not that interested if they had done D of E or travelled unless the experiences were connected to the subject they wanted to study. Your DH course sounds like it is very specialised along the lines of engineering/medicine where the work experience is crucial. DS's first choice course was extremely competetive for entry I think 750 applicants for about 60 places, but a combined course so not so specialised.

However, after all that if you have read any of my other threads you will know that he has decided he doesn't want to do either of his offer courses anymore and wants to do medicine. Ho hum. 2 more years to go cos can't apply without chemistry A level and work experience etc etc ....but thats a whole other story!

[singersgirl]

"I have to say, based on experience, that the more expensive private schools are perhaps the worst culprits?"

Are you asking a question, Musicteachingmum?

You definitely sound very biased and as if you have fully signed up to the myth that private school students are 'spoon fed' (a popular phrase here on Mumsnet). It's strange that many of the most selective and expensive private schools - Westminster, for example - get such good university admissions if students' personal statements are as doctored and generic as you suggest.

[Remotew]

Musicteachingmum, you mentioned 4 weeks relevant work experience. Anyone know if applying for med school what relevant work experience is for that. Caring, would that count?

[Musicteachingmum]

potential

[Musicteachingmum]

Re private schools and support - as PPP suggests, perhaps some private schools help a little too much! There was a subtle pro forma on the PSs from private schools that we looked over this year - the beggining 'quote' (please avoid)! etc. The best PSs were the ones that the student obviously produced themselves, with good support and a 'look over', both from private and state schools. I have to say, based on experience, that the more expensive private schools are perhaps the worst culprits?

Ok, I have some bias, I was responsible for UCAS entries in a state school a few years back - we worked incredibly hard, and would not sign off the application until we were happy that the personal statement put the candidate in the best, and most honest, light.

The course I've referred to interviews all portential candidates and it's amazing how many that seem good on paper fall down at interview - maybe nerves, but also sometimes because the PS didn't really 'belong' to them.

[Musicteachingmum]

Lazymum - Just to reiterate that I'm quoting from my DH who is an admissions tutor on a highly prestigious, competitive course at a top university! Your son must have produced a very good PS which obviously suggested that there was more to him than just his A level results - my point exactly! Also, perhaps his course was a little less competitive than the one to which I am referring, where a minimum of four weeks relevant work experience is the first essential entry criteria, before A level results are even looked at!

[SuzieHomemaker]

I think a big difficulty for students is that it seems that the rules keep changing. One year admissions tutors seem to be looking for lots of breadth - a broad range of subjects at A level, lots of extra curricular activities. The next year the world turns and admissions tutors seem to be looking for greater concentration on the subject.

Perhaps students need to stop trying to second guess the process and study the subjects which interest them then see where that leads them. Students change so much between 14 and their early twenties that they might as well enjoy what they are doing at the time.

I work in professional skills training and know that it really doesnt matter that much in the end (though I wont be mentioning that to DCs) unless the student is planning an academic career. Any gaps in knowledge can be made up for later.

[Ponders]

my kids have all been through a state school (selective, admittedly) & had masses of help with their PSs - DS1 had a gap year before even thinking about applying (no straight As for him ) but even though he'd left the year before, his former personal tutor gave him lots of time & help with his PS & he got into a Russell Group university.

DS2 is currently at a FE college & is also getting loads of support towards applying in the next academic year.

State schools may not be businesses, but it's also in their interest to get good university admissions.

[PosyPetrovaPauline]

Evil - I was seething at some of the things parents said at the time

[PosyPetrovaPauline]

definitely NOT a good thing but this is what the state school kids are up against and that IS an issue

I am not just quoting ds - the upper 6th year and all that UCAS stuff is pretty heavy going and ALL parents talk about it..

the general consensus seemed to be that the private schools 'came into their own' and took the burden of the PS from pupils

private schools are businesses and it is in their financial interest to get students into great universities

maybe state schools just do not have the time etc or funds to spend time on them i don't know

[EvilTwins]

I don't think you can say that private schools are "generally" more supportive based purely on the experience of your own DS. I've had VI Form tutees for a while, and always spend time working on their statements with thm. And anyway they should do it themselves - it's a personal statement. Your comment

"my experience was that ds private school friends did very little of their own ps"

is bizarre. And this is a good thing?

[PosyPetrovaPauline]

evil - that is not a personal insult so please don't take it as such

my experience was that ds private school friends did very little of their own ps whereas at ds school - they would be 'looked over' and commented on by a teacher if you took it. ds did take it to a couple but the comments advising him contradicted one another

generally the private school pupils seemed to have much more support

you don't think this is so?

[webwiz]

DD1's experience was the same as Lazymum's DS - minimum extracurricular stuff but good gcse's, a good personal statement that really showed she wanted to study biology and a good reference from school and she had no problems getting offers.

DD2 does lots of stuff because she enjoys being busy but there won't be room to fit much of it into her personal statement without sacrificing the academic side of it and certainly for her chosen subject, maths, this will be most important.

When DD1 was applying an admissions tutor came from one of the universities to talk about personal statements and what they were looking for. He showed examples of what they considered were excellent personal statements and none of them have more than a few lines about being a prefect and D of E it was nearly all "why I am really interested in the subject I want to study"