How to handle FiL's homophobic go's at 2yo ds?

[phdlife]

My PiLs are mostly great, they do a lot around the house and help me with the dc's and are forever feeding us, buying us stuff for the house, etc.

But Old Skool FiL is really starting to grate. He's constantly going on about ds (2.3) turning into a "poofter", a "great big girl's blouse" etc., because ds likes to have his toenails painted, occasionally wears a tiara and a skirt, and loves to help in the kitchen. I am seriously and about this but I don't know how to address it.

I've tried pointing out that (1) even if ds does turn out to be gay, we'll love him anyway so it's irrelevant; (2) they all do it at this age and it means nothing to how he'll turn out; (3) it is possible to be a scone-making jet pilot (what PiL said today he wants ds to do instead of baking ), the two are not mutually exclusive. But he's not taking the hint. (he did once say he wasn't homophobic, and I'm still kicking myself for biting back the obvious retort.)

Any suggestions how I can deal with this, gently but firmly? I think PiL is already a bit nervous around me (big scary lefty feminist over-educated me) and being OldSkool the whole family tend to be "avoiders" in a big way, so mentioning it at all is going to be a bit bolshie, but I really don't want the dc's growing up subjected to so much homophobia.

[phdlife]

there, there, SPB, we all have years days like that

MagNacarta I think that's probably the approach I'd favor, but am finding myself really angered when PiL has a direct go at ds - "you don't want to grow up to be a big girl's blouse, do you?". Or a go at me ("you're indulging his whims"), for that matter. ("Yes, I am, because they don't worry me!") After the third or fourth time in a morning I'm seething inside.

[StealthPolarBear]

yes, sorry my response was very harsh, I'm guessing your PIL has many good qualities and you all love him. Just in a argumentative mood this morning

[MagNacarta]

Both my dc's grandfathers are like this and I have decided that the dc's will meet people with different views in life and therefore it's better to talk to them about it. So, I do sometimes say 'well I don't agree' or something fairly vague, but have said to the dc's that Grandad has some very old fashioned views that Daddy and I don't agree with. As a result we've had some great chats about equality between the sexes, race etc.

Also we have some friends who are gay, so when either Grandfather says something homeophobic they look bemused and say something like 'oh, you mean like John and James?'

It's great.

My dc's are older than 2, (youngest is 6) but we've adopted this approach since they were able to talk. It also means that they know that you can love someone who has different beliefs to you, so I'm hoping that my dc's are a lot more tolerant than me.

[choccyp1g]

How about you say to Grandad:

Oh you seem very worried about him turning out to be gay. That's very interesting because often it's men who have some gay tendencies themselves are the most fearful of it. Do you think there's any truth in that theory?

It doesn't really address his homophobia, but might at least shut him up.

[StealthPolarBear]

"Well better that than a homophobic, bigoted old git"?
Maybe a bit harsh...

[MadameCastafiore]

I told my cousin not to use racist language infront of my 2 last weekend because I didn't want them growing into bigoted ignorant twats!

Mind you he used to attack people on benefits but that has all stopped since he got engaged to a girl who just so happened tohave made some bad choices in her life!

Just be direct.

[minouminou]

Where I grew up (west yorkshire-ish), "Buggerlugs" was a perfectly acceptable term of endearment to children and animals; however, I caught myself saying it to DS a couple of weeks ago and pulled myself up short, as it sounded very wrong to my 21st century ears (or indeed, lugs)!

[GreenMonkies]

Scorpette, We are in the North West, in the Liverpool/Wirral area. I know he was using it as a term of endearment, but I just didn't want it to be one of my babies first words!! (and neither did DP) It is a "swear" word, (I don't think of it as a "gay" word at all) and I feel that profanity is as inappropriate as bigotry!

[TwoIfBySea]

You could always tell him it worked for Eddie Izzard.

[Scorpette]

GreenMonkies, where's your FIL from? I'm from the Peak District and we grew up being called buggers by our parents, Grandparents and everyone else! Round there, it's just a term of endearment, nothing more. I don't think people think of it as a gay word so much anymore. I still call everyone a cheeky bugger, it's a force of habit!

[GreenMonkies]

(don't, not font!!)

[GreenMonkies]

Another vote for Reality's solution here!

My FIL used to refer to babies as "Bugger" he did it to his first and it used to make me cringe everytime he said cheerily "Hello Bugger!" (why anyone would think this was an acceptable thing to say to a baby/small child is beyond me ) when DD1 was born he began to say it to her, I asked DP if he minded it and he also didn't like it (there's a shock!) so the next time it happened DP just said "Dad, could you not call her that, her name is XXXXX and we really font like Bugger" and he stopped.

I think polite but direct is the best method, a calm, simple "don't do that" is best. If he persists, ask him to leave, he'll soon pack it in!

[Scorpette]

4 things you could say:

1. If he does turn out to be gay, he'll suffer enough prejudice from the outside world without his Granddad joining in.
   
   
2. Why do you want to make a tiny child feel there's something wrong with himself when he's just having fun?
   
   
3. Things like baking and dress-up are only seen as feminine cos SOCIETY says they are*. At their age, kids have no real concept of what's male or female, so please let him enjoy all this stuff whilst he still can, because in a few years he'll have moved onto other stuff.
   
   I would also tell him that if he's going to make DS feel bad about himself then he can't see him. And get DH to have a word with him - perhaps FIL secretly worries that his son doesn't like it but puts up with it to keep the peace and is therefore being well-meaningly but cack-handedly interfering?
   
   Incidentally, my brother used to love to wear my old dresses and playing 'being ladies' with me (ironically, I was a bit of a tomboy) and he also insisted on having long hair, wearing nail varnish and having his own Sindy. He also kept asking my parents about when he was going to turn into a little girl and had weeping fits when told he wouldn't. Nowadays, all that would make you think he was going to be a transsexual! Anyway, they just let him do his thang and by the time he started school, he was obsessed with football, guns, fighting, climbing trees, mechano, lego... you name it, he fitted all the gender sterotypes!
   
   *Try not to drop a whole critical theory lecture on him, mind

[Greensleeves]

I told my dad straight when we had ds1: one breath of racism, homophobia, antisemitism or any of your other bullshit in front of my son and you will be out on your arse quickler than concorde

so far he has held himself in

[minouminou]

Ha ha...this thing with the buggies makes me laugh. If you see a man pushing a pram, he's almost certainly NOT gay - there'll be a few guys who are gay, but it's almost certainly the child's dad!
It really is very silly indeed.

[Chrysanthemum5]

Hi
My FIL really loves my DCs, and he is a fabulous grandad. But on occassion he has been a bit 'old school' with DS. For example, DS really wanted a buggy to push so I bought him one from ELC, they only had the blue ones so that's what he got. FIL was really uncomfortable with this (don't know why he happily pushes his GCs in their prams, changes nappies etc.) and was making comments about how he didn't like to see DS with a buggy. Rather than make a big fuss I just pointed out to him that there was nothing wrong or odd about a boy pushing a buggy and that the buggy also came in pink and if I heard one more comment about it then I'd swap the blue buggy for a pink one. That shut FIL up pretty quickly

I know my FIL loves all his GCs, and I believe he will love them no matter what they do with their lives, or their sexuality. So, I don't worry too much about it, but if he makes comments I answer straight away to let him know it's not acceptable. I think you have to be pretty straightforward and upfront about this. To be fair to FIL it has been several years since he made any comments, I think he learnt his lesson!
Donna x

[minouminou]

Aye thenghhh-huuuugh!
Just had another thought as I was making a sandwich....
OP, this is meant v gently, as I'm 100% on your side, but the "we'll love him anyway" reinforces your FIL's idea that being gay is some kind of pathological situation, so I'd replace it with something like "Oooh, fab, I'll get an invite to Mardi Gras every year".
Now I'm aware that's playing into stereotypes as well, but it'll show FIL that you REALLY don't care, and neither does anyone else.
God I hate homophobes.

[suwoo]

Minouminou, I love your retorts- very clever and not a great deal they can say to come back from those.

[minouminou]

My DS has long blond hair, looks like Joey Tempest from Europe (really), and is mistaken for a girl daily, which has led to a couple of morons giving it the old "But he'll grow up gayyyyyy" line.
Response "Why on earth are you interested in the sexuality of a toddler - that's really rather odd"
and
"How many gay men do you actually know? Do they have long hair?"
This can be amended to "wear nail varnish etc etc"
I jokingly asked one of DS' gay odd-parents if he thought DS would turn out gay, and his response was a sniffy "Not with (non-existant) split ends like that, he won't".
Alternatively, you could invite him over for a screening of "American Beauty" and watch his face as it turns out that the super-duper-alpha-male Nazi-fan homophobic former marine turns out to be a closeter!
Good luck....sounds odious.

[Lizzylou]

That's where I read it Cloudedyellow!

Yep, get your FIL a copy, Phd.

[cloudedyellow]

I think I remember Steve Biddulp in 'Raising Boys' writing about the need for boys to explore all aspects of their personality in order to become well balanced men.

Would your pil be more open to a book written by a MAN on these issues?

[FabBakerGirlIsBack]

Yes.

[phdlife]

and do I correct FiL in his own house???

[phdlife]

and what do we think dh's role should be?

[aGalChangedHerName]

Honestly??

Just tell him he must stop saying XY and Z or else he can't visit. That's waht i told my dad and it bloody worked.

I am not having my dc listening/being subjected to that crap!!