Those of you married to a lawyer

[Ancientruins]

Does it ever get better?

He's a lovely man and he earns a good salary but I'm twenty or so years in and the work never stops. I mean never.
Not on holiday. Not during births. Not during house moves.

And although a devoted husband and father who totally gets stuck in when available, that tends to be only two half days at weekends if we are lucky. And then he is so exhausted he either forces himself to join in, falls asleep while we are watching a film, or he looks so wretched I send him to bed to catch up on sleep.

Things are much better when we are on holiday; he becomes so much happier and more relaxed although business calls still creep in here and there. And of course it takes him ten days on either side to fight through the work and then catch up again to even get to the point where he can leave the office for a few days.

It used to work well because I very much like my own company and I have a close and supportive family, but as time goes on, I am starting to wonder what's the point, why do you even need a wife, do you just expect me to sit here and wait until you are available in fifteen years when you are retired? Isn't the point to enjoy the journey along the way? When I ask him this he says "but the reason I am doing this is for you and the DC". What am I supposed to say to that?

It sounds selfish because I know he loves me and relies on me being "around" but I am getting a bit tired of being at the bottom of the priority list which appears to be: work, DC (quite rightly), dog, household necessities, life admin, wife. Except by the time he gets time to focus on me he is so tired his eyes literally glaze over when we speak. I try not to take it personally.

I'm thoroughly fed of him constantly being on his phone, or conversations, meals , evenings being interrupted by calls from clients. When we were first married it was a joke that as soon as we started a conversation , he would rush out of the door to the office, to the airport, to a client meeting. Our teens actually named him "the smoke" because that's all that's left in his trail. The joke is starting to wear a bit thin!

People assume there are monetary compensations but I am lucky enough to have my own source of income so I am not dependent on him for that.

He says he can only do his job now at this level because of all the hours and the expertise he has built up over thirty years. And I know his work is in an important field which he finds incredibly challenging, and intellectually satisfying. But it doesn't leave time for anything else, and as the years go on, there doesn't seem to be any hope that things will change before he retires, if he doesn't drop dead of a heart attack or stroke first.

I miss him

[MsTSwift]

Yes it happens but is more rare. Weirdly I have worked in every type of firm (high street mid level Magic Circle and a secondment in a bank). High street and in house lawyers do not work like this ime).

Remember a single female colleague insisting to her male boss she needed a day off in the middle of a deal. He was 🙄 til she pointed out he had someone at home sorting his laundry/food shop/life admin and she didn’t.

[badpuma]

@MsTSwift

It’s kind of annoying that only men can get away with being like this. Can’t see a woman being able to work at this rate and have a husband and children too

I know one who does - she is more present at home but makes up for it by working well into the evening and every weekend.

DH and I are both solicitors working in house. The salary is a lot lower but still top 5% and the hours are much better. Interestingly, it is a real and very good change to the client relationship - in many ways you become much closer so you're not solving problems, you're preventing them from arising in the first place.

[Hyppogriff]

This thread is both interesting and hard to read as so much rungs true. That feeling of waiting for the next thing when things will be better and the possibility that it really won’t ever be us scary

[MsTSwift]

Actually reading this makes me quite angry that some firms are still doing this. As Egg points out it’s not necessary- dh and I left the City to avoid it he now works in a similar way to Egg I’m self employed.

Expecting this of employees is also sexist because fewer women are going to be able to (or want to) work like that. In my team no one went back after mat leave hours too brutal. You woukk ok d literally not see your baby. I couldn’t do it.

The partner in the office next to mine dropped dead at 43 with a massive heart attack. He was in the kitchen with his dd at the time and had 3 young children. He was slightly overweight but worked incredibly hard and was under a huge amount of pressure 🙁

[Osirus]

I’m married to a lawyer too OP, and he’s exactly the same. He came home from work at 1am one day last week - another 11pm.

I don’t get him at the weekends either, as he often works then too, or is doing on a big project he’s running (not relating to law).

When he got home from work on Thursday, it was the first time I’d had a proper conversation with him since Saturday.

It’s a good job I love my own company. I don’t know any other woman who’d put up with it.

[Carryingon]

I am a lawyer. The billable hours culture means that many private practice firms really do expect you to be available most hours of the day.

[lottiegarbanzo]

He's not 'doing it for you', he's doing it because he enjoys it.

You provide him with the ability to have a family, in addition to the sparkling career he'd have had anyway.

I do know a number of (female) lawyers with DC. They've curtailed their personal ambition to allow for family life. Because they value family life.

[Eggsley]

I'm a lawyer too. As others have said, it is a choice for your DH, although he may not feel like it is whilst he's in the middle of it. There are times when it's hard to switch off. It's not a 9-5 job and it can be difficult to take a step back. But I have never missed a school event for my DC and have always been there if they've been ill.

At my last firm I was working 6am-11pm every weekday and spending all weekend on edge and stressed. I had to cut a holiday short last summer because of work, and I was livid. I handed in my notice less than a month later (I'd been there nearly 10 years). I am not prepared to work for a firm that expects that of me or my family. I've moved to a firm where there would be no such expectation. I tend to work 8-5/5.30, admittedly I rarely take a lunch break, I am always home for dinner, if I work in the evenings it's when the DC are in bed and only ever 2-3 nights in the week for a couple of hours (if at all), and I don't take phone calls. I very rarely work at weekends and if I do, it's only a couple of hours each day and only when really, really busy and again, I don't take phone calls. I also finish at 4/4.30 on a Friday. Little things but they have made a huge difference to our family life, I don't want to miss out on my DC growing up and I don't want to miss out on spending time with my DH.

It boils down to what his priorities are I think. It might be difficult for him to take a step back but if he wants to save his marriage then it sounds like that's what he's going to have to do. Good luck OP

[Ancientruins]

It's certainly not easy BCBG.

Good luck to you and everyone in similar circumstances.

[BCBG]

@Ancientruins I could have written your post many times. DH retired at the beginning of lockdown from a City Lawyer/US partnership. We have been married 33 years. I love him but now the spark has gone and he has dropped into retirement and stopped dead. Apart from golf he has built no hobbies or interests to sustain him and our children are at uni or beyond. I take issue with a PP who said that you can always delegate when you are at that level - if you are a partner with a US law firm you need to personally produce 1800 chargeable hours per year - fairly easy on corporate finance, nigh on impossible in real estate. The job takes over everything. I found that I survived by building a life for myself again (abs bitterly regret dropping my own career) but although we are together and as I say, love each other, I am unhappy, bored, and resentful that I feel he has taken me for granted for so long. That is unfair but none the less real. I have no advice for you except to say that perhaps you can carve out time to reconnect before it's too late - a sabbatical as suggested above would be a good starting point.

[Ancientruins]

Thank you very much dopenguinsdance. And thank you again for all of the replies, and for the links which I will follow up ; it's been very helpful to hear everyone's perspectives.

[dopenguinsdance]

We're all hoping you find a happy resolution AncientRuins, with or without your DH. And in the meantime, we're here if you need to vent.

[MyDogCalledMax]

This is a tricky one because I am a lawyer working in a large regional law firm and my husband is a police officer. I’m an associate so relatively junior at the moment but the “conveyer belt” another poster mentioned is so true. You’re expected to want the promotions and to get those you have to serve your time. If you don’t want to make partner people think you are odd!
Because of who I am, I can never leave work behind...notwithstanding Covid and it physically being in my house now! Whereas my husband can switch off when he gets home.
Ultimately he accepted a long time ago that this is who I am and we make it work 🤷🏻‍♀️

[Lostthetastefordahlias]

On reflection Candleabra I agree, the onus should not be on the OP. The financial planning was just something that might strengthen her case when he says “its for you”. Also I was trying to say I dont do meal planning, I let Hello Fresh do that for me I do as little domestic stuff for him as possible.

[DE8ORAH]

@Candleabra

The problem with all these solutions is that it's really all down to you. Having to present him with a household budget breakdown, meal planning etc sounds very labour intensive. You're not his employee.

I take your point about it being more work for the OP. However I did this some years ago with my ex.

We didn’t have any of these things mentioned upthread - interior designed house, private club memberships, 5 *hotels & designer clothes or the SUV gas guzzler. We had no holidays outside the Uk for years as H left every single holiday early to go to work. And it’s not a lot of fun being stuck on your own in a villa in Greece with three children under 5. We had no private club memberships - how could I go there with small children 24/7?

We had a fairly modest lifestyle compared to that - no school fees, car payments, childcare, cleaner or mortgage. I did all the figures to show him that he could work less than half the time and still we would be comfortable. And have enough to help the children through university, have nice holidays etc

He didn’t believe me .

So I got our accountant to go over the figures with us. He believed him ( of course he did, the accountant was male) but it made no difference.

H continued just the way he always had done. He works like that because he LIKES IT.

So it was all a waste of time. Still at least it stopped him saying “ I’m doing it for you and the kids “. And that’s been proven, because he’s still doing it more than a decade later.

@Comtesse - you are right about the 2,500 billable hours. Although he has drastically cut down his non billable hours now, he says it’s probably only 5 hours a week.

In fact I talked to him about it yesterday - we are still on good terms most of the time. He says he’s only going these hours to the end of this year and then will cut down in 2022.

It was hard not to smile as that what he’s been saying since he was 40 and he’s now in his 60s.

[HereWeGoAgainAgainAgain]

I'm a lawyer and i don't work to this extent. Although I do work in-house rather than in practice (typically good money, far better hours, less annoying clients to suck up to!) so that might be why.

[ginandbearit]

Check out Jordan Peterson on youtube ..Women in high paying jobs ...describes exactly this issue .

[Candleabra]

The problem with all these solutions is that it's really all down to you. Having to present him with a household budget breakdown, meal planning etc sounds very labour intensive. You're not his employee.

[Lostthetastefordahlias]

I think this is a good approach OP - I am married to a city lawyer and the times his job has seemed to encroach on family life have been when I have been at home all the time due to mat leave, illness, now corona etc. Something for yourself makes all the difference and may hopefully help snap him out of his slightly selfish mindset by seeing you as a person with the same abilities / needs.
This is his problem not yours and not suggesting you do this at all but similar to pp I also see lawyers partners who have loved to complain about the hours their partner works but show no willingness to cut down expenditure or actually even take on any planning or show any knowledge of family finances. Can you present an alternative household budget in order to show him how you could realistically reduce his salary? Examples of houses with lower mortgages, other supermarkets etc?
On the other hand if you decide to stay with a relatively high income for him, I have been surprised how much less resentful I feel if we use some of it for the domestic stuff I don't enjoy (I do work as well, but regardless, if one partner is not helping at all with domestic stuff I think this should be considered). The main thing for me is hello fresh or mindful chef (or similar) depending on how healthy we want to be as I hate meal planning etc, also getting dry cleaning/ironing picked up and dropped off (most city firms will have this service available so he should be able to organise it himself), cleaning etc. It might seem expensive - but thats the other benefit really, showing him how much these things cost if someone else is doing them!!
This may be all already very obvious, apologies if so, we certainly dont have an ideal set up either! Good luck!

[Candleabra]

It's fine to do what you want you know. You say he was brought up to serve, but he's conditioned you to serve him now.
I don't think it's good for a marriage to have such disparity in the individual lives you lead. He's not present in the family unit, but apparently doing it all for you and the kids...until he's doing it for someone else. Then you're 60 with no idea where 40 years of your life went.

[Ancientruins]

Posted too soon. End of penultimate paragraph should have read,

"No one got a different outcome by doing the same thing"

[Ancientruins]

Thank you so much everybody. I'm late responding to all of these replies but I have read each and every one. Some really great advice here. I know I will keep referring to it.

dopenguinsdance description about it being "...a very fine line between doing the job and being the job" is spot on.

MinerSilvr's post is very pertinent too because DH was definitely brought up to "serve".

And frankly its just reassuring to hear that others understand the brutality of the hours and the loneliness because bizarrely, DH himself doesn't seem to get it entirely. (What Caketherapy said about this makes sense.)

I'm really impressed by those of you who are, or who have, made it work. And I appreciate the kind wishes.

I also appreciate the honesty; some of the posts are very direct and although hard to read in part, because so much of it rings true, I needed to read that because I have to do some hard thinking.

I have taken on board the posts from lawyers who say they don't work like this and all the posts saying it's a choice. I am admittedly a bit scared at confronting that because I have never known DH any other way. I can't really judge what he would be like without his job.

I'm not remotely interested in other relationships or a flash lifestyle but I do want to do something more meaningful for myself and I do miss the old connection I had with DH but for the moment, it is what it is.

DH is a very good father when he is around, but I've always been the one that has been there in all practical ways for the DC. Now they don't need me as much, although of course they still do in many ways, I want to do something for myself on my own terms before I get too old. As Causingchaos2 says, we've all only got one shot. I've already decided that I am not going to wait or ask for his "permission", or talk about it much, I am just going to crack on. I have a feeling he may find it a bit uncomfortable because I won't be there for him that I have been in the past. But no one got a difference

Good luck to everyone going through similar things; I know these sorts of issues aren't exclusive to partners of lawyers or lawyers themselves by any means. .
.

[Comtesse]

2500 billable hours in your 60s? Horrendous. I’m Big 4 not law but would count on at least 0.5-1 hour of non billable time alongside every hour of billable.

[HeronLanyon]

My dp and I are at the Bar and work ridiculous hours. We carve out time away (pre Covid) some of the time that’s messed up by court diaries going tits up.

‘Luckily’ self-employment and both being established and senior means we consciously reduced work a bit around 5 years ago to ‘save’ family and personal life. Started to book out prep days and be happier to say no to long cases which would threaten booked holidays etc.

Plenty of women at the Bar have similar struggles where family has lost out at times. It’s more accepted for men, still, fundamentally. Less accepted for men to reduce hours seen as lack of ambition or some other nonsense.

It’s so much more difficult when an employed lawyer or establishing yourself or financially insecure and needing to work all hours. It’s really brutal. Too many do indeed die younger than ‘expected’ - the work takes a toll. Child protection and crime bring added stress and can change people fundamentally.
Good luck op. You’ve taken big step in setting it all out for yourself and being at a point where you need to do something to get him back a bit.

[Normaigai]

@MsTSwift

It’s kind of annoying that only men can get away with being like this. Can’t see a woman being able to work at this rate and have a husband and children too

I know several women with husbands and children who work like this. I've been one in the past myself.