I'm obsessed with his ex.

[ManfaJones8]

Not one for AIBU category, because I am (100%).
I can't get past his relationship, with his ex wife.
I'm not sure if it's because, he has experienced so many firsts with her or that he shares 3 children with her (we won't be having children).
We have been together for 3 years, he has been divorced longer.
I don't think he has any residual feelings towards her.
She can be a quite nasty towards me or about me, but that's ok. We don't need to interact. We don't have to be friendly.
The smallest things can set me off, like the fact that they are still "friends" on FB and he has some (very old) photos of them as a family, still on his FB.
If she contacts him about the children and deviates from the topic (fills him in on a bit of news), I will have an issue with it.
I'm obsessive, needy and really embarrassed by my behaviour.
Any advice would be appreciated.

[samyeagar]

He has no control over what the ex-wife says or feels, and nothing he says or does can change it.

My wife really struggled with a very similar situation for the first several years of our marriage. My ex-wife is diagnosed Narcissistic Personality Disorder, and my current wife has a flash temper who is always quick to engage in pretty much anything. She social media stalked my ex, always asking me questions about her and our relationship, comparing herself to her, even went so far as to cut her out of old photographs at one point. That combination of my wife and ex wife made my life very difficult.

The thing is, I had nearly 20 years of building the skills to deal with my ex-wife. My current wife did not.

Every communication my ex and I had was through text or email because my ex would never keep to the topic of discussion, always tried to derail and deflect. I wanted to have a record of everything she said for when we would inevitably end up back in court. And we did, several times. I also made sure to use as few words as possible with her. Only responded to questions about the kids. Ignored everything else. As many yes and no answers as I could. No flowery language, or filler words or anything. As minimal engagement as required.

It was a lose-lose with my wife...not telling her about communication with my ex, and then talking about plans with the kids always ended with...So you did talk to her? Let me see the conversation. Tell her about talking with my ex-wife, let me see the conversation.

My ex always had passive aggressive, or full on aggressive, or snarky, nasty things to say about my current wife, and I refused to engage my ex with that. Only engaged about the children. Sure, I could have gotten mad at my ex, told her to stop, yell at her, but to what end? It would have been nothing but engagement for the sake of engagement. It would not change my ex'es behaviour, and it would just feed her need to sew discord.

The problem with me not engaging was my current wife saw that as me not standing up for her, and picking my ex over her. I did engage my ex a few times over things she said about my wife, mainly to humour my wife, and when it inevitably did not change my ex'es behaviour, back to square one of dealing with a vicious ex wife, and wife angry that I could not control my ex.

After a while, I stopped validating my wifes feelings of anger towards my ex wife because my wife was the one who unnecessarily and purposely set out to stir those feelings up. I divorced my ex wife to get away from the discord, and I was not going to be remarried to that by proxy.

It was a rough first few years with my wife, and dealing with my ex, and it almost broke us up a few times. At one point, my wife started directly dealing with my ex. That was hell, and in the end, nothing had changed. It was just a load of screaming and yelling and nastiness that changed literally nothing. Just a bunch of time and emotional energy spent on anger for the sake of anger.

Not sure there was ever an aha moment with my wife where things suddenly changed, but gradually, my wife came to see the situation with my ex for what it was rather than what she wanted it to be. I think it slowly sunk in that she couldn't change or control my ex and what she said or felt. That my ex was was never going to have some moment of enlightenment and see the error of her ways, and suddenly change.

[ExtraSettings]

I think another name might be "retrospective jealousy" ... I'm not sure. But either way its about someone's "past". Its caused by any number of things...

• your lack of self-confidence and self-worth
• his lack of love or commitment
• just life and feeling a "lack" - lack of experience, whatever.

a mixture?

I had to have therapy for this one ...

I'm afraid it was a "thing" always around me .

With age and experience it has pretty much gone! Its sad I felt so lacking in self-worth when I was younger, in my 20s to 30s.

[Theonethatgotawayawayaway]

@MrsRosiieP

No advice, same boat here. DP has 2 kids with her. One thing I’ve done is stopped going with him to pick up the kids at her house. I couldn’t stand the polite smiles and small talk.
I also asked DP to stop talking to her about me. I know she used to ask about my job and that really pissed me off. Where I work is none of her business. DP understood and now he keeps me out of conversations to her.
It’s weird because she’s 4 years older than DP and I really can’t picture them together. When we got together she put her foot down or something and started denying access to the children. We had to go back to court for access orders. DP said it was her just trying to assert her position as ‘mother of the children’ so that I don’t replace her.
We don’t have kids of our own yet but are ttc so it’ll be interesting to see how it changes the dynamics.

She was putting her foot down?! Wtf

[MrsRosiieP]

No advice, same boat here. DP has 2 kids with her. One thing I’ve done is stopped going with him to pick up the kids at her house. I couldn’t stand the polite smiles and small talk.
I also asked DP to stop talking to her about me. I know she used to ask about my job and that really pissed me off. Where I work is none of her business. DP understood and now he keeps me out of conversations to her.
It’s weird because she’s 4 years older than DP and I really can’t picture them together. When we got together she put her foot down or something and started denying access to the children. We had to go back to court for access orders. DP said it was her just trying to assert her position as ‘mother of the children’ so that I don’t replace her.
We don’t have kids of our own yet but are ttc so it’ll be interesting to see how it changes the dynamics.

[Sunflower1970]

You need to work on your self esteem. You gave a good man there and your obsessive jealousy is going to ruin a good relationship. I feel very sorry for your partner. If I was him I would end it and find a positive, open minded person who will help him move on with his life

[LockdownLady1]

Google retroactive jealousy - there’s some good books I’ve read on it too. Unfortunately I still suffer from this but my fears were then confirmed when I found naked photos of her on my exes phone. He also talked about her a lot and clearly wasn’t over her so I think subconsciously I knew that and it triggered me. It also hurt because they had a child together and he didn’t want one with me - although I did with him. So yes maybe if you can’t get past it then consider finding someone else that doesn’t make you feel such anxiety

[MotherOfDragons85]

It’s hard to know whether your partner is playing you off on each other or not. What do you think? Is he manipulative?

Seems like you’re both a bit jealous of each other really, at least that’s how it comes across, and I think it’s ok to be sad about not having all these “firsts” with the man you love, I’m the same sometimes with my partner, he was engaged to his ex and they were going to get married, they broke up though in the end, but he’s made it clear he doesn’t want to get married to me, and in a way I often think about this and feel a bit hurt, like “why did her want her to be his wife and not me?” I do feel lesser than her at times and although I’ve come to terms with the fact I’ll never be married now at 35, it stings that he wanted to have her as his wife but not me. I guess like others have said you need to let yourself mourn these things, and instead focus on what you will have with him. Child free is not a bad thing.

[youvegottenminuteslynn]

@changelie

This was destroying my marriage . I thought about my DH's ex wife constantly, they have kids so she isn't going away anytime soon.
What I've had to do is de-demonise her in my head . I'd never mention her name to my DH , it was alway 'her' so I started slowly mentioning her by name . I'd never go with him to pick kids up incase I saw her so I started doing that , and when I saw her I'd smile . I told Dh I wasn't jealous anymore even though I still was ... and i think it's helped a bit.
Don't get me wrong i still wish she didn't exist but she's not the untouchable goddess I always painted her as in my head .
I wish u well I really do... it's an awful feeling to have that you can't talk about really in real life as nobody seems to understand x

Was his ex horrible to you at some point? Or just happened to be married and have kids with her first?

[changelie]

This was destroying my marriage . I thought about my DH's ex wife constantly, they have kids so she isn't going away anytime soon.
What I've had to do is de-demonise her in my head . I'd never mention her name to my DH , it was alway 'her' so I started slowly mentioning her by name . I'd never go with him to pick kids up incase I saw her so I started doing that , and when I saw her I'd smile . I told Dh I wasn't jealous anymore even though I still was ... and i think it's helped a bit.
Don't get me wrong i still wish she didn't exist but she's not the untouchable goddess I always painted her as in my head .
I wish u well I really do... it's an awful feeling to have that you can't talk about really in real life as nobody seems to understand x

[Sillysandy]

This is really complicated and I admire your commitment to this relationship. Loads of women would have walked. I hope your DP realises this.

Things need to change.

As things currently stand, his ex is inhabiting a very inappropriate space in your relationship, he is sticking his head in the sand about the impact it's having on you. She is successfully drawing him into arguments and commanding his attention (even if it's bad attention). You are ironically being held responsible (by yourself, him and possibly her) for having a perfectly natural reaction.

It is 100% not on for his ex to insult you like this. If you two are going to have a rewarding relationship you need to get firmly on the same page. You're the couple, you're united with his kids and she is on the sideline.

He is playing into her trap by getting into arguments with her. He needs to embarrass her. The next time she says something about you
"Why are you so obsessed with my relationship?" "We have been broken up years, you need to move on " "Look it's a shame you haven't found someone, I hope you do soon". "I wish things could be friendly between us for the sake of the kids. You're clearly not there so let's just stick to minimal contact."

It's really important he doesn't get tricked into responding to whatever insult she has thrown out or defending you. He should ignore her accusations entirely but have a consistent response that he won't tolerate anything but child-related conversation that is respectful of the life he leads with you. That way he stops her controlling the narrative. If he consistently sighs, repeats it's a shame she won't let go and ends the conversation immediately she will not get the attention she craves. She clearly enjoys getting a reaction, it probably makes her feel she still has some control over him.

For your own sanity I would also take some time considering the following -

You don't have to stay.
You could try to have a child. You can change your mind. I had mine at 40 so did plenty of my friends. Perfectly healthy.
You can stick by your decision to not have children but that doesn't mean you're not entitled to be sad about it. Find a new counsellor to explore these feelings and share with your partner when you feel ready.

[user1481840227]

I think you should find a better therapist and try again.

You wouldn't have to necessarily go to a counsellor, you could try something like CBT which is good for obsessive thinking and worrying.

[Raidblunner]

This is a difficult one, exes can insert a lot of grief in to subsequent relationships. To some extent and probably by your own admission your overthinking this one. The fact she doesn't like you and you constantly winding yourself up about the situation is self perpetuating. You need to break that obsession somehow as it sounds pretty consuming. I've never met my girlfriends ex husband as he lives in the channel islands. I can only go on what she's told me and his failure to be a father to their children. That in it self is enough to know I don't like him and just as well he's miles away, if I had to meet him I'd struggle to hold my tongue. You need to give yourself a break from this, some form of distraction. Perhaps some charity work to help with feeling better about yourself.

[harriethoyle]

OP I totally get this. My DH has dc with his ex W (I'm child free by choice). She is toxic and moronic and, honestly, sometimes I judge him for having children with her. How could he have loved someone as awful as her? The firsts thing used to really bother me as well.

BUT my therapist pointed out as a PP has, he and I have loads of firsts with plenty of others who are lost in the mists of time. It's just contact with her has to continue because of the DC and one of the things I love about him is what a great father he is in the face of endless provocation. Try and reframe your relationship as containing all of his significant lasts, if that makes sense. You're his last great love, his last cohabiter, his last life partner. This really helped me. I also totally agree with PP about blocking her on SM so you can't stalk. Sounds to me like she's jealous of you and that's where the bile comes from. For that she is to be pitied not envied.

[MyDarlingWhatIfYouFly]

I think one of your issues is that maybe you are over-romanticising the "connection" you think they have due to having children together.

I know quite a few couples who have divorced post children and they all say that the stress of having young children pushed them apart rather than brought them closer. They also hate being tied to their ex-p via the children and will never willingly contact them again once the children become adults.

When I was younger I was a bit obsessed with my first boyfriends ex. In my eyes she was more attractive, intelligent etc and I couldn't work out why he wanted me after being with someone like her. It took years to realise that my own self esteem was the problem - rather than focusing on his ex in therapy I think you need to concentrate on your self esteem and as you deal with that issue this one will also resolve.

[Readingandrighting]

I sit here everyday for a good hour looking at her Facebook profile. Looking at her friends Facebook profiles to find other photos of her. I even dyed my hair dark because she had dark hair? Honestly sounds insane but I can't stop obsessing and it's so upsetting... I dont even know why I'm still doing it?

My advice is decide that today you will not look at her FB page. I’m quitting a few obsessions in 2021 & an anxiety expert on the radio said the best way to quit is to just not do that thing you do reflexively once ... and then twice ... and then slowly kick the bad habit. (I can relate as I used to look at my ex’s ex’s FB at one stage too)

[gannett]

[quote ManfaJones8]@lilmishap We have argued about this in the past and I have asked him not to involve me in their disputes.
He doesn't for an extended period and then he will say something in anger (anger towards her), I'll get drawn in and ask questions.[/quote]
This is hard because a good step here would be to tell him not to pass on anything she says about you, even if he's just trying to be honest. It's not good for you and you don't need to hear it.

But it sounds like you've said this, he's done it but the cycle begins again when he needs (understandably) to vent.

Does he have anyone else who he can vent to? A friend, another family member, maybe even a counsellor?

[NewMum2021x]

@ManfaJones8 yeah it's strange, they were tighter 2 years before he got with me but knew her for like 6 years from school etc. they had such a bad relationship - everyone who knows them said the same. When his grandad passed away ( they had been broken up a year at the time and the was with me for a year) he messaged her behind my back and told her? So when we broke up he slept with her within 6 weeks of us breaking up... they were speaking I think for around 6 months... but I always think if he wanted to get back with her he would have? As she's so easy... that's what I tell myself to make myself feel better as we're back together now... it just baffles me. I sit here everyday for a good hour looking at her Facebook profile. Looking at her friends Facebook profiles to find other photos of her. I even dyed my hair dark because she had dark hair? Honestly sounds insane but I can't stop obsessing and it's so upsetting... I dont even know why I'm still doing it? I've been doing it for years 🥺

[MixMatch]

@ManfaJones8 Havent read the full thread but whatever you do, absolutely do not deny yourself the chance of children because of him. He's had his chance to have kids, no reason why you shouldn't also have the opportunity. If you want kids, find someone who also does, and have your firsts with them.

[Readingandrighting]

I feel pathetic for being so insecure tbh

@ManfaJones8 Oh I understand OP. With two of my exes, I was so very insecure about their exes. I suffered with jealousy (& it is a form of suffering!) & I made those men suffer too, one of them in particular.

I can’t speak for you but I had some deep-seated self-esteem issues which I’m only working on properly now. It took me a while & a recommendation but I’m seeing a good counsellor now and finally becoming an authentic version of myself. I’m single (separated from my husband) but I’m feeling optimistic about my next relationship. I know it’ll be different & better.

Jealousy, like the type you’re experiencing, is often a sign of a deep, unresolved wound. It’s hard to face all of that, believe me I know - but you need to nurture and love yourself instead of beating yourself up for feeling such painful emotions.

[Miramour]

It's good that you accept you don't need to be liked by her.
It's good that you recognise you feel insecure.
Perhaps now focus on what else you can do because of course you have no control over what your husband and his ex do.

It is a shame that counselling was unsuccessful, it can be frustrating and disappointing when you don't gel with a therapist.

They can't advise, only listen and gently prod you in the direction of working things out for yourself. I think you seem very capable of working this out.

Perhaps read up on boundaries and undertake to maintain yours and respect his.

Perhaps read up on self esteem and undertake to care for yourself, to be positive and kind to yourself. You are worth it.

[Iyiyi]

OP I have a lot of empathy with you. My DP and I both have DCs and we won’t have any together - I don’t want any more children but I’m sad nonetheless. My feelings of jealousy really stem from my own feelings of regret about my own life choices - I married someone I absolutely knew I shouldn’t have, and I spent much longer with him than I should, and had children with him, and he’s been an awful and damaging father. I’m jealous of her because she had the opportunity to have a family life with my partner (even though she probably feels about my DP the way I feel about my ex!) and because although DP finds her annoying, they generally get in AND he has some close friends who have awful dramatic relationships with their ex and it really effects their children - he is grateful that their issues are really irritations rather than major dramas and so he doesn’t rock the boat too much. She doesn’t slag me off but she doesn’t like me being mentioned, she prefers to pretend I don’t exist.

I never mention how I feel to DP because I know it is my issue and not his and because there is literally nothing he can do. Objectively speaking there is nothing at all he is doing wrong or anything specific to address- it’s all me.

[ManfaJones8]

@lilmishap We have argued about this in the past and I have asked him not to involve me in their disputes.
He doesn't for an extended period and then he will say something in anger (anger towards her), I'll get drawn in and ask questions.

[YuletidePizza]

It does sound like he may enjoy the jealousy element OP. It is a good ego boost to have two women fighting over him. In reality, if he wanted to be with her then he would be, but he has chosen to be with you.

Ive noticed that men ive dated have also felt insecure that I have an ex husband who I share kids with, I think it is natural to an extent, I know I have felt insecure about ex wives!

Do you think your partner may be trying to make you jealous? Or is he genuinely oblivious to the hurt telling you her words causes? It would be much more sensible for him not to tell you, I can see why you would feel like he is being disloyal by having 'fun' chit chat with his ex wife who also bad mouths you. If she bad mouths you then really his conversations with her should be kept to essential child related information.

[Eckhart]

@ManfaJones8

I will. He maintains he only tells me things, in the interest of being honest and truthful to me and I probably dwell on it unnecessarily. I shouldn't give it oxygen and neither should he.

People only say that the other party 'maintains' a position if they feel there's an element of doubt about the position.

Do you have a niggling doubt that he's telling you for other reasons? And if so, what are they?