Was this weird/inappropriate?

[SoVeryQuiet]

This is about a man I was dating but am no longer seeing. We dated for a few months.

I have children - a 22 year old son and a 14 year old daughter. They met him a handful.of times and got on well.

The last time he came round to mine (3 days before I finished it for a number of reasons). He did something that made me feel a bit uncomfortable.

He had a nickname for my daughter it was perfectly fine - not inappropriate and was a name she sometimes jokingly refers to herself by. It seemed a bit odd that he'd adopted it as a nickname to use but I just put it down to him making a clumsy effort. He doesn't have children but has friends whose children have grown up with him almost as an uncle.

Anyway, the last time he came round, he came in and I invited him to sit where he liked while I put the kettle on.

We have a 3 seater sofa and 2 armchairs. My daughter was sitting at one end of the sofa and all other seats were empty.

He said "ooh i think i'm going to sit next to

[trixiebelden77]

I think it’s very unusual behaviour to sit so close to a teenager when there are lots of other places to sit. There will be some teenagers who would not be comfortable to move if they didn’t want to sit so close. Adults need to show respect for boundaries that teenagers may not yet have the confidence to enforce.

I’m really surprised that so many people would sit so closely to a teenager and have no thought it may be uncomfortable for them.

[talktothehandcosthefaceaint]

@BigFatLiar

Remember this is mumsnet where all men are perverts, potential rapists and paedophiles.

All we can go on is what you've told us.

He got on well with your children.

He was friendly and caring (didn't want her getting cold so gave her his jacket).

Sat with you daughter and made friendly conversation about her day.

If you're uncomfortable with this that's fine, you set your own boundaries. Think about what you find unacceptable and should you start a new relationship make it clear from the outset eg don't be friendly with the children, don't sit next to my daughter or talk to her when I'm not in the room, call her by her given name. Its up to you, you don't need our approval.

This is such an oddly hyperbolic post I can't decipher anything but hysterical projection from you.

[talktothehandcosthefaceaint]

@BigFatLiar

It also felt odd that he had a nickname for her but not one for me. That seemed 'off'.

But he didn't have a nickname, she already had one and he used it.

He wasn't inappropriate in anyway.

And yet your coming on mumsnet to help get people to say he was a nasty person? I think he's well out of it. If you want a partner but don't want him to want to be part of the family get yourself a fwb and meet away from home.

She didn't come on mumsnet to 'say he was a nasty person'.

She came to the relationships board to discuss a feeling she had about how somebody behaved towards her teenage daugher.

Why are you so invested in criticising her?

[Moltenpink]

Sorry I think it’s weird, if you want to chat to someone you sit across from them, not side by side. It’s like going into an almost empty row of toilets and choosing a cubicle right next to someone, there’s no need.

[itsovernowthen]

The bit that sounds most odd to me is him not only sitting so close to your daughter, but announcing it first. If there was truly no issue, he'd have just sat down without saying anything, it sounds a bit "hiding in plain sight" to me, and a recognition on his part that maybe it wasn't the right thing to do. I too would have felt uncomfortable with this as a mum.

[BuffayTheVampireLayer]

Oh and my DP would never sit uninvited by my children like that or call them by a nickname unless they had said he could. Most adults would recognise a boundary that they don't cross when it comes to children and it sounds like he was blurring them.

[BuffayTheVampireLayer]

It rings alarm bells with me OP. It's just 'off'. I also had something similar at a similar age. He was grooming me. Also sat next to me like that too and paid me a bit more attention than he should but nothing that alerted anyone there was more in it. Your instincts are there for a reason and yours are telling you something.

[Onxob]

If you're instincts were telling you something was off then I would always listen to that.

I think it's inappropriate for a grown man who is virtually a stranger to sit so close to a teenage girl and putting his jacket over her shoulders is what you'd do to someone you were dating. It could of course been innocent and he was just clueless about how he should behave but if it was my daughter I would definitely not like it.

[Iggypoppie]

There's a 90% chance it was fine but it also could be a bit creepy. As a once off it's obviously not possible to know really but you are always right to be wary and trust your instincts- even if these are just making you pay attention.

[BigFatLiar]

In future when/if you meet someone just don't take him home until you feel you can trust him. Meet away from home, at his place perhaps. Make it clear what your boundaries are.

[TinyGhost]

Seems far to informal, which would raise my suspicions.

It’s like the way an auntie or uncle would behave with a young child they already know well and have a relationship with.

I would have found it it weird if close family or family friends continued to do that by the time I was a teenager.

Radar would be pinging

[SandMason]

OP I’m really sorry you’re feeling your radar might be skewed because of the csa. It’s usually quite the opposite - going through that makes your radar sharper than anyone’s as you’re painfully aware of subtle warning signals. Those doubts about your own intuition are very possibly a result of the abuse (which is usually accompanied by all sorts of gaslighting etc. designed to stop you speaking up), and can linger for a long, long time. You might not be able to put your finger on what exactly was ‘off’ about his behaviour, but you felt it and that’s enough. Some pretty aggressive defenders of the patriarchy on here - don’t let that put you off trusting your own judgment.

[category12]

He had met the dc "a handful of times". It's weird to sit right next to someone on the sofa when you don't know them well and there are plenty of other seats, and it's weird to announce it. We're talking about a normal family living room, not a mansion where they'd have to shout across a hundred feet or something to talk.

[BigFatLiar]

Oh it's not "making an effort" to use a nickname fpr a teenager you barely know, or make a thing out of sitting next to them.

They'd been seeing each other for months, been out for family day out, met several times. How long should it be before he sits by her and talks to her? Five years? Ten? If OP doesn't want a man to interact with her children she is within her rights. Just needs to say to him 'don't sit with my daughter' etc. It would of course be better to meet away from the home until you're ok with him spending time with your kids.

[category12]

Oh it's not "making an effort" to use a nickname fpr a teenager you barely know, or make a thing out of sitting next to them.

Far too often we're expected to overlook odd behaviours in men and make excuses for them and think of reasons why they might not be being creepy but misunderstood, and then when it turns out there is something wrong, we should have known and why did we overlook the signs? If someone's behaviour makes you uncomfortable, you should absolutely listen to that and take notice of it.

[BigFatLiar]

Remember this is mumsnet where all men are perverts, potential rapists and paedophiles.

All we can go on is what you've told us.

He got on well with your children.

He was friendly and caring (didn't want her getting cold so gave her his jacket).

Sat with you daughter and made friendly conversation about her day.

If you're uncomfortable with this that's fine, you set your own boundaries. Think about what you find unacceptable and should you start a new relationship make it clear from the outset eg don't be friendly with the children, don't sit next to my daughter or talk to her when I'm not in the room, call her by her given name. Its up to you, you don't need our approval.

[Noitjustwontdo]

I don’t think he was inappropriate personally, I thought you were going to go into more creepy details than simply using a nickname she already uses herself and choosing to sit next to her on the sofa. I think he just wanted to fit in tbh, he was trying to be friendly rather than sinister.

[SoVeryQuiet]

dontgobaconmyheart

Thank you.

[dontgobaconmyheart]

Not sure why OP is being given a hard time just for asking for additional opinions about something very reasonable, or advised not to date again. I wonder if the women so keen to protect 'poor' men (that they know nothing about) are so stringent in protecting women, living in the patriarchal society.

OP, nobody here knows him so nobody knows whether he is gods gift or indeed a sinister individual. I do think it's a bit weird and over the top and am not in the habit of patting men on the back because they 'tried' to do something. They aren't dependents or children. I would have thought an adult man would have enough about him to understand a teenage girl might be made uncomfortable by his actions, rather than trying to ingratiate himself or look gentlemanly as a priority or whatever he was up to. He could have asked you as an adult about ways to be ingratiating into the family unit if it was heading that way.


Since you're no longer seeing him it is a bit moot. I would assert boundaries if you reach this stage of dating again and not 'allow' anything you don't feel comfortable with. You don't need to always give the other person the benefit of the doubt or facilitate anything to be polite, that you don't like. Especially regarding your own children. Take it easy on yourself OP. You've done nothing wrong here.

[SoVeryQuiet]

And yet your coming on mumsnet to help get people to say he was a nasty person

Where have I said I want people to say he's a nasty person?

I explained that, as someone who experienced csa, I just wondered if other people would have read it as strange or not.

Some people would, others wouldn't. That's fair enough. As much as anything, I'm trying to assess my own boundaries. My mother's boundaries were totally off which was how what happened to me was able to happen and she continued to make dubious boundary decisions where men and I were concerned until I stopped speaking to her several years ago.

Northernparent68

No one said he was a child abuser. It just seemed odd to me and I wondered if others would have found it odd as my 'radar' might be a bit skewed.

That was all.

The nickname is a name she refers to herself by as joke. It's not a nickname in general use. Of which she has plenty. Not that that really matters.

[Northernparent68]

Poor bloke, written off as a child abuser for sitting next to someone,

[BigFatLiar]

It also felt odd that he had a nickname for her but not one for me. That seemed 'off'.

But he didn't have a nickname, she already had one and he used it.

He wasn't inappropriate in anyway.

And yet your coming on mumsnet to help get people to say he was a nasty person? I think he's well out of it. If you want a partner but don't want him to want to be part of the family get yourself a fwb and meet away from home.

[Bannister]

@GravityFalls

Hmm, I think it’s a bit weird - I’m a teacher and it would ring alarm bells if I saw that sort of behaviour tbh. My DS has a friend who has a 13 year old sister - I’ve met her a handful of times and we’re on chatting terms but I’d never nickname her or sit next to her on the sofa as I’d be very aware that would most likely make her feel awkward but as a polite child wouldn’t want to offend me by moving away. I do tend to think most functioning adults would understand this so I don’t like to bend over backwards with the “maybe he didn’t understand” stuff. If these men were genuinely that clueless they’d regularly be getting smacked in the face by people.

But you’re a teacher. You work professionally with children and/or teenagers, and have a strong sense of appropriate boundaries, and also what a thirteen or fourteen year old girl is likely to be ok with (and I agree with you about sitting next to and politeness.) Im certainly not excusing this man in an ‘Ah, bless, they can’t see dirt/female boundaries’ way, which I agree is counterproductive and infuriating, but I think that the reason some men aren’t regularly smacked in the face is that they understand male boundaries — they don’t stare at other men’s genitals at urinals or cut in front of larger men in a queue at the bar, because it’s dangerous. Dangerous to them.

But it sometimes seems to me that some men lack a theory of mind when it comes to women experiencing them as a threat, which is entirely their fault. I have certainly had to explain to my father that yes, he may know he’s not a threat to a woman walking by herself at night, but she doesn’t. That, back in the days when people picked up hitchhikers, it was not unreasonable for the girl he’d given a ride to to become alarmed when he suddenly turned off the main route into the city — he knew it was a useful rat run to avoid traffic because he was a professional driver who knew the road, she didn’t.

[category12]

It sets off alarm bells for me.

It's trying to manufacture a false closeness quickly and it's a bit icky and suspect.

[Thesheerrelief]

I would be uncomfortable with someone I don't know very well sitting that close to me and there's something about it that doesn't sound appropriate. Probably not anything sinister but not understanding of personal space. The nickname thing is a bit odd, too